# Anyone else scared about the follower rework?
**URL:** https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567
**Category:** Game Discussion
**Created:** [April 11, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567 "2024-04-11T14:38:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ed.209](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ed.209)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/1 "2024-04-11T14:38:04Z")
With the spell and gear reworks both being a massive slap in the face, the upcoming/eventual follower rework can’t be a good thing.
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### Author:  [@KenpoKid69](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KenpoKid69)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/2 "2024-04-11T15:51:59Z")
Not scared, excited for it. Just look at the Xione, Toragon, Soulchaser, and Gemka changes. Haven’t those changes been good ones? Xione was a little rough initially, granted, but feels so much better now. I’m hoping that we see every follower gain an ability to use their extra left over follower crystals in some form or fashion after the rework.
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### Author:  [@Esoxnepa](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Esoxnepa)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/3 "2024-04-11T15:55:24Z")
I’m not really worried. The things that would anger me would be losing the extra storage space for gear and probably the passive generation abilities for food and ore.
I hope they look at the levels for Gemka, Soulchaser, etc., and realize that crafting a random mythic should be much lower than level 50. Probably level 40 or 45 at most. Use Aether as the limiter to how many people can craft. Then make sure level 50 of those can chose the slot and set for the Mythic. In my opinion, random legendary should be very low like 20 or 25, followed by picking a slot and set legendary by 35 and mythic by 40 with like slot or set at 45 and slot and set at 50, or something.
Like if the gear rework didn’t limit our ability for focused progression, it would be very positive. Perhaps the follower rework is where the ability for more focused progression will be.
Oh well, I plan to try and stick around through the minion changes to see if they had a real arc of overall improvements planned that took time to implement, or if this has gone gatcha game.
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### Author:  [@HigureTheStillWind](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/HigureTheStillWind)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/4 "2024-04-11T16:38:47Z")
I am optimistic about the follower rework. Right now they are really lacking so there is little room for making them worse and a lot of room to make them better.
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/5 "2024-04-11T17:01:31Z")
> [@KenpoKid69](#):
>
> Just look at the Xione, Toragon, Soulchaser, and Gemka changes. Haven’t those changes been good ones
No, they haven’t. Not in context. They’re terrible.
After all, what did they do? They took away the ability to intelligently level up spells and gear, replacing it with random-only drops, then added an entire new resource (spell dust or aether), you could accumulate to … _drum roll_ … get _another_ random drop. **BZZZZTT**
Hey, you can’t work on upgrades to gear you want any more, just keep playing the slot machine in the _very small chance_ that an improvement of the item(s) you want might happen to drop … but, hey, look, here’s a whole new way - albeit slow - to get an _extra_ pull of the slot machine! Woo-hoo. **NOT**
(Granted, for spells at top level you _can_ select something specific. I’m less bothered by the spell rework than the gear one. … For parity, top-level followers should have been able to craft a _specific_ mythic gear item, not a random one.)
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> [@Esoxnepa](#):
>
> I plan to try and stick around … to see if they had a real arc of overall improvements planned that took time to implement, or if this has gone gatcha game.
That’s what I’m doing too.
I’m no longer actively playing - save when there’s a high-level challenge with a _guaranteed_ desirable reward - because RNG slot-machine gacha chests aren’t worth my IRL time or resources.
So I mainly do auto-play, loot tickets, and perhaps some of the adventures (because, again, there’s a _guaranteed_ pay-back for those … unlike for chests).
.
Before 3.0, I’d just started getting really into the game, experimenting with different gear sets, upgrading the ones I liked, feeling good about making progress.
Now that I have no control over my heroes’ development anymore – now that I’m completely dependent on RNG drops for advancement – I’ve given up on that.
I feel betrayed by the changes to the fundamental game mechanic … but, even more, I just don’t care any more. All the gear I was leveling up is now “worthless” in terms of advancing to mythic … and I have no interest or desire in playing a hopeless gacha game to try to achieve those improvements.
_IF_ the ability to advance gear from common to mythic is returned, and in some reasonable and reliable fashion, my interest - though bruised - might reignite. Maybe.
So I’m sticking around in a holding pattern to see if that happens.
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> [@Esoxnepa](#):
>
> Perhaps the follower rework is where the ability for more focused progression will be.
That’s the optimistic view.
I still think it’d make more sense - and give a more positive experience to players who enjoy intelligently leveling gear - to have an additional “spend aether to improve this item to the next quality level” stage of honing.
But having followers offer that option would work too.
I agree with you that it would make sense to move the “craft random crap for aether” options in followers to lower levels (I mean, as long as we’re giving away mythics to a few lucky folk, why not just throw 'em about like candy. Dazzle those new players and hope it makes them drop lots of money before they get bored!!)
Then take the current levels and turn them in to “improve selected gear” rather than “craft random item.”
Indeed, for _greater_ appeal, they could do _BOTH_ … Add the ability to hone an item to the next quality level and _also_ allow top-tier followers to “craft an epic/legendary/mythic for a given slot and set”.
In fact – hmm – even easier would be to use the _existing_ crafting options that do that (slot / set) but improve the _quality_ of the item so produced based on follower level.
E.g. If you craft an item for slot&set with a level 40 follower, you get an epic. 45, a legendary. 50, a mythic.
… well, one can dream …
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> [@HigureTheStillWind](#):
>
> Right now they are really lacking so there is little room for making them worse and a lot of room to make them better.
I think you don’t give the devs (or, more likely, management) enough credit for creative ways to screw things up. 😃
But, yeah, once we see the rest of the “unveiling” in 3.1 and 3.2, it’ll be clear whether the intent all along has been to fundamentally alter the game mechanic and experience … whether or not to turn it into “full gacha game.”
And, if so, I’m outta here … along (no doubt) with a fair chunk of the existing customer base, who showed up and stuck around because we _didn’t_ want that gameplay experience.
There are other (and cheaper, and more established) gacha games out there if _that’s_ what we’re looking for!
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### Author:  [@KenpoKid69](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KenpoKid69)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/6 "2024-04-11T17:08:41Z")
> [@Switch](#):
>
> After all, what did they do? They took away the ability to intelligently level up spells and gear, replacing it with random-only drops, then added an entire new resource (spell dust or aether), you could accumulate to … _drum roll_ … get _another_ random drop. **BZZZZTT**
Not true at all. Xione has many options that allow you to both pick spells at random or select the color, the class, or the actual spell itself. You can and should be very intelligent on how you spend your spell dust.
As for crafters, crafters have kept all their original abilities to craft up to legendary gear, albeit a bit less useful when they can now also make random mythic drops. I would love to be able to pick the set of the random mythic they make, but its really not that bad, either way.
> [@Switch](#):
>
> There are other (and **cheaper** , and more established) gacha games out there if _that’s_ what we’re looking for!
Cheaper than Free?
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/7 "2024-04-11T17:19:16Z")
> [@KenpoKid69](#):
>
> Cheaper than Free
All gacha games promise F2P, and then hit you up for microtransactions to speed up, compete with others, or even get past a certain point.
Few games have microtransactions as _absurdly expensive_ as the pop-up “flash offers” in PQ3. Those immediately alienated me as a new player. 10x (at least) more expensive than what I’d consider at all reasonable or ever even contemplate paying. [The monthly pass, by contrast, is at least a reasonable return on investment.]
I mean, the whole ‘gacha’ genre is predatory and exploitative anyway, but there are degrees!
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### Author:  [@ParaTara](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ParaTara)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/8 "2024-04-11T18:38:54Z")
I am not all that concerned about the follower rework. As of right now I am in a weird spot where its gonna take me a long time to get people to 50 (many of mine are mythic, minus Darkhunter and Resh), and the crystals were not until this new rework coming very quickly.
I feel like the followers can only go up from where they are, based on what they do. I never got to use anybody beyond Eveline at 50 in the old system, so hopefully in the new system ill have the top ability available to me. I like how Xione functions, and she allowed me to get a lot of extra spells for the class I wanted to play (merc) so that was a real plus for me.
Also - predatory is not overpriced. Are the deals kinda expensive for what you get, kinda - but the paid route has always been a quicker way to the end goal of what you want. You can get most things offered for money by grinding or simply waiting for chests to open. Eventually you do get stuff, even if its a long road to get there. If you choose to spend, its because you didnt want to go the other route so yes, I agree with Kenpo its free, it just costs your time.
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/9 "2024-04-11T18:50:28Z")
> [@ParaTara](#):
>
> Eventually you do get stuff, even if its a long road to get there. If you choose to spend, its because you didnt want to go the other route so yes, I agree with Kenpo its free, it just costs your time.
This isn’t in conflict with what I said. Wasn’t my point.
I don’t disagree with the above.
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My point is that the ratio of expense to progress in the game PQ3 is becoming is _very high_ should you chose to advance by spending money.
You have to spend a _lot_ for minimal progress (especially with those flash offers), compared to other games.
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If I were a potential new customer who _didn’t_ want a gacha game - like many of PQ3’s pre-3.0 customers - I’d look at a full gacha PQ3 and say “hard pass”.
If I were a potential new customer who _did_ want a gacha game, I’d look at that ratio and _still_ say “hard pass”.
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Thus my concern for the future of PQ3, if it completes a transition to full gacha over the next updates, is that:
- It ~~will~~ would lose many existing customers
- It ~~won’t~~ wouldn’t attract many new customers
- Those who stay - because heavily invested - ~~are~~ would be either those who were far enough along that they don’t need to pay much anyway … Or ~~are~~ would be a limited number of “whales”
- Whom gacha-PQ3 ~~will~~ would have to keep squeezing harder and harder in a doomed, diminishing-returns effort to stay afloat.
Which – in addition to wanting to keep playing a version of the game that I find enjoyable and rewarding – is why I hope PQ3 doesn’t go full gacha. Or, maybe I should say, _stay_ full gacha.
[EDITed verb moods to be _explicitly_ subjunctive to help overcome @ParaTara’s confusion]
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### Author:  [@Santandrix](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Santandrix)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/10 "2024-04-11T19:15:00Z")
Nope. Not scared at all.
I hope that we can finally use crystals to trade. For example
Giving bree her crystal will give you some food.
Give auri her crystal for some gold.
Etc.
Let’s see what the devs do though when the time comes. I hope it turns out good.
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### Author:  [@Swivel](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Swivel)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/11 "2024-04-11T20:08:10Z")
I’m going to have to knuckle down and get my last remaining followers up to level 50.
I don’t want them stuck at Legendary. 🤭
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### Author:  [@ParaTara](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ParaTara)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/12 "2024-04-11T20:08:52Z")
You absolutely do not have to spend anything to progress. There aren’t even ads (on the Playstation, I cant attest to other versions) to get you a leg up there. Its truly a F2P experience.
Your analysis of customers, and retention are not valid without having the data from the development team. It is an opinion, and while everybody is allowed to have one, please stop presenting it as fact.
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### Author:  [@ParaTara](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ParaTara)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/13 "2024-04-11T20:09:32Z")
Luckily Mythic is at 45! You can do it!
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/14 "2024-04-11T20:15:26Z")
> [@ParaTara](#):
>
> You absolutely do not have to spend anything to progress.
Let me try this again. _I do not disagree._ Please re-read.
My point is that, if you do choose to spend money, you have to pay a lot in exchange for very little progress/reward. Especially those flash offers. i.e. high cost-to-benefit ratio.
This is why I called it “more expensive” with comparison to many other gacha games (which are also F2P,but where microtransactions are less expensive and/or rewards obtained more significant) – and thus, I expect, not likely to appeal to a huge number of new players if they continue down that road.
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> [@ParaTara](#):
>
> Your analysis of customers … is an opinion
Again, please read more carefully. Obviously it’s an opinion. Like most of what’s exchanged here.
This is why I said “my concern…is that”. Or, if you prefer, I could have said “I worry that”, or “I am afraid that.”
All such phrases throw their subordinate clauses into the subjunctive mood, which is implicitly that of opinion. … do I need to go edit it for your comfort?
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### Author:  [@ParaTara](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ParaTara)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/15 "2024-04-11T20:45:58Z")
Agreet to disagree. I can read what you wrote just fine, there is no need to keep quoting me to counterpoint everything I say.
Ending on this, not scared of the follower rework, and looking forward to what its going to be to get back on the topic that was posted.
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### Author:  [@ed.209](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ed.209)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/16 "2024-04-12T16:19:03Z")
OK, so I’ve read everyone’s comments and I think I should have elaborated a little. I’m not against the _ **idea** _ of a follower rework; a while ago I even posted a suggestion for one here:
[Level 50 follower rework 2nd draft](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/level-50-follower-rework-2nd-draft/4409/1))
My concern is that it’s going to be similar to the scrolls/spellbook fiasco where it’s “follower tome” or something similar, resulting in a “now or never” situation - a mad dash to get your followers up to L50, before the update makes it stupidly expensive, and all but impossible for new-mid players.
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### Author:  [@Dr.dispair](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Dr.dispair)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/17 "2024-04-12T18:34:47Z")
You seem really angry about things you have to accept wont change and that any compensation won’t be forthcoming.
Take a break from the forum and “touch grass” as the kids say.
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### Author:  [@KenpoKid69](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KenpoKid69)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/18 "2024-04-12T18:55:02Z")
Ironically, that change is coming now, was announced yesterday by Jeto.
> [@Crafting Follower Information](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/crafting-follower-information/4569):
>
> Hey everyone, We wanted to create a small thread just to share what information I have about the upcoming further gear rework and follower updates. We will be making changes specifically to the crafting followers Toragon, Gemka and Soulchaser in 3.1.5 as these are currently the highest priority given that their abilities and UI were designed with the old Gear System in mind. These changes will allow players to have more control over the things they can currently do, such as crafting, rerollin…
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/19 "2024-04-12T18:56:04Z")
> [@Dr.dispair](#):
>
> You seem really angry … that any compensation won’t be forthcoming.
I think you’ve confused me with players who are upset that level-50-mythics were “collapsed” by 3.0 to be equal to level-45-mythics, without compensation.
.
The comments in the thread above aren’t “angry” about anything … they’re warning that (imho) a pure “gacha” style PQ3 won’t be commercially competitive, because, given the high costs of micro-transactions (especially the flash offers) in PQ3, potential future customers won’t be particularly attracted to the game, because those costs (yes, Para, optional costs) are so high, and for such relatively minor returns.
Compare, for instance, Candy Crush - one of the most successful match-3 games - where the microtransactions are about 10% of those costs.
.
So, no, the above isn’t anger – it’s customer feedback offered in the hopes that the PQ3 devs (and/or management) won’t make choices that wind up causing the business (and , thus, game) to collapse.
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### Author:  [@Switch](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Switch)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2024, 7:01pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/anyone-else-scared-about-the-follower-rework/4567/20 "2024-04-12T19:01:21Z")
> [@KenpoKid69](#):
>
> that change is coming now
Yes, this was welcome - if scarce and preliminary - news.
Clearly the devs/management/whoever took notice of how upset a fair number of customers were about the “loss of control” issues (such as the loss of ability to improve gear from common up to mythic).
It remains to be seen, of course, whether they address those concerns in any substantive way, or if they keep the game a fully “gacha” style experience with only some insignificant and expensive fiddly bits about the edges to allow any other sort of gear advancement.
However, I’m encouraged that Jeto at least was authorized to address the issue – even if in such an oblique and general way – and so feel a bit more comfortable with my decision to “hang around” as a “passive” and “reduced investment” PQ3 player, putting off any final decisions until more specifics are forthcoming.
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