# PvP : Not getting a top opponent **URL:** \ **Category:** Game Feedback & Ideas\ **Created:** [November 6, 2023, 10:44am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024 "2023-11-06T10:44:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/jose/32/6984_2.png) [@jose](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/jose)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:44am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/1 "2023-11-06T10:44:25Z")
![Screenshot_20231106_150337_Discord](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/f/fd1b8e7c4e052f1cfa2b32b30a5a3ed581a5c34c.jpeg) ![Screenshot_20231106_144617_Puzzle Quest 3](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/8/8a122b6990ee5fd1b8d692222369980a84693bfc.jpeg) Screenshots of Champion League, Open, Top 10 fights. The first one of my kingdom mate has as third top score Donpiky(Tiger). But the second one, which is mine, do not have just that one player from the top 10. I have finished all my fights for the week. I understand that the one I am missing is ftom the Challenger league. But it should either be “all get the top BS players from all leagues, or none get players from other leagues.” This differentiation of some players like me not getting all the top ones is really frustrating, to say the least. One other player also, from my kingdom, has missed the top third scoring match. I know you are trying to make PvP better. But these type of discrepancies do lower the competitive spirit of the game a lot. My name code. PHANTOM\_DTAG P.S. I am missing this same fight for the second straight week. I may have missed earlier also. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Onion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Raw\_Onion](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Raw_Onion)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 11:48am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/2 "2023-11-06T11:48:46Z")
Welcome to my world……🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Civeteran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Civeteran](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Civeteran)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/3 "2023-11-06T15:05:39Z")
Yes, you missed him before too. I mentioned that already 2 weeks ago in PvP-Details. Hope it will be changed with 2.4 ---
**Author:** ![Necro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Necro](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Necro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/4 "2023-11-06T19:37:03Z")
said: ![40x40](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/3/3ff0e4abc7b9553d3e7905d52e3d08d5b2d7e8ee.png) **Kafka** (Puzzle Quest 3) Nov 6, 2023, 16:25 GMT+11 Hi, Welcome to Puzzle Quest 3 Support! I’m Kafka and I’ll be helping you today. We made some changes to PVP in version 2.3 to improve on things, and we have more changes coming in 2.4 to continue improving the PVP experience. You can find the details we’ve released on our forum here: [https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/2-3-pvp-detail](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/2-3-pvp-detail) Please let me know if I can help with anything else. Regards, Kafka (She/Her) Customer Experience Manager Hi Phantom. I am Necromasher. I complained about this issue as well. There are no Dev guidelines to read nor are there any rules. Ergo all of the posted information does not come from any official source but from opinions. There seems to be a way for the top players to get their positions without giving us enough points to advance. The system is being exploited, and needs to be fixed. I will venture out on a limb and state we all want fair treatment and the ability to advance on our own skills and abilities. To do so, the Dev’s need to publish a guide and rule list. Otherwise all of us are guessing and some are exploiting. The system as it stands is unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Jonas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@Jonas](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Jonas)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/5 "2023-11-06T19:44:36Z")
I think the more you try to find solutions to fix what isn’t right, the more problems arise. Start from scratch and simplify. It won ? 3 points, lost with Reflect and died with the opponent? 1 point, lost? -0 point Various leagues, tournaments to be eliminated, one against each opponent in your group/league, choose a hero and respective equipment to defend the Avatar from the beginning of the tournament until the end; in short, anything that works and takes away the complicated math. I know it’s easy to talk but most players don’t feel a great affinity with the model that exists, sometimes you need to take a step back to be able to take two steps forward. For my part, I want to thank you for the work you have done and I hope you have good inspiration for the future. ---
**Author:** ![HigureTheStillWind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/higurethestillwind/32/3149_2.png) [@HigureTheStillWind](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/HigureTheStillWind)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/6 "2023-11-06T19:58:16Z")
You can check the posted PvP details and rules here: -New PvPs: [Update 2.2 Patch Notes](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/update-2-2-patch-notes/3705) -Additional changes made to matchmaking: [2.3 PvP Details](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/2-3-pvp-details/3845) In those posts you have all the information needed to understand the new PvPs. ---
**Author:** ![00h00m](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/00h00m/32/3601_2.png) [@00h00m](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/00h00m)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/7 "2023-11-06T21:02:36Z")
Hi @Necro , I have finished in 1st place in the top tier pvp tournaments and can assure you it was not through any “exploits”. There are strategies that can be used to help ensure you are getting the max points available in any given tournament. There are also flaws (bugs?) in the matchmaking that can prevent you from getting points that should be available. Some bugs that have been identified and have been reported in these forums recently. I do think these have led to some “bad” results in tournaments that gave a player an unfair advantage in the scoring. I know you are a guest on the ToO discord. Hit me up there and I can look at your top 10 list and compare it with mine to see if your list fits what I would expect to see. All that said, I think what you are experiencing is an issue I detailed in my post here: > [@2.3 PvP Details](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/2-3-pvp-details/3845/41): > > There is a fundamental disadvantage in the scoring system that punishes those seeded (by +pts) in the top 10. Here is a simplified breakdown. Imagine a tournament with 25 players, the top seeded player will give 4550 (3500x1.3) to all other players who achieve a perfect victory. The problem is that seeded player 1 cannot fight themself, so they are limited to the +pts from players 2-11. Seeded player 2, same situation, but gets scores from 1 and 3-11. All the way down through the top 10 the max… It is a long thread, so I will cross-post it here. > There is a fundamental disadvantage in the scoring system that punishes those seeded (by +pts) in the top 10. > > Here is a simplified breakdown. Imagine a tournament with 25 players, the top seeded player will give 4550 (3500x1.3) to all other players who achieve a perfect victory. The problem is that seeded player 1 cannot fight themself, so they are limited to the +pts from players 2-11. Seeded player 2, same situation, but gets scores from 1 and 3-11. All the way down through the top 10 the maximum score available is less than that for all players seeded 11 and below. > > This chart assumes perfect victory for all fights to help illustrate the flaw in the scoring system: > > | Seeded Rank | Bonus Avail | Perfect Victory | Total Possible | Rank Possible | > | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | > | 1 | 3500 | 4550 | 38350 | **11** | > | 2 | 3400 | 4420 | 38480 | **10** | > | 3 | 3300 | 4290 | 38610 | **9** | > | 4 | 3200 | 4160 | 38740 | **8** | > | 5 | 3100 | 4030 | 38870 | **7** | > | 6 | 3000 | 3900 | 39000 | **6** | > | 7 | 2900 | 3770 | 39130 | **5** | > | 8 | 2800 | 3640 | 39260 | **4** | > | 9 | 2700 | 3510 | 39390 | **3** | > | 10 | 2600 | 3380 | 39520 | **2** | > | 11 | 2500 | 3250 | 39650 | 1 | > | 12 | 2400 | 3120 | 39650 | 1 | > | 13 | 2300 | 2990 | 39650 | 1 | > | 14 | 2200 | 2860 | 39650 | 1 | > | 15 | 2100 | 2730 | 39650 | 1 | > | 16 | 2000 | 2600 | 39650 | 1 | > | 17 | 1900 | 2470 | 39650 | 1 | > | 18 | 1800 | 2340 | 39650 | 1 | > | 19 | 1700 | 2210 | 39650 | 1 | > | 20 | 1600 | 2080 | 39650 | 1 | > | 21 | 1500 | 1950 | 39650 | 1 | > | 22 | 1400 | 1820 | 39650 | 1 | > | 23 | 1300 | 1690 | 39650 | 1 | > | 24 | 1200 | 1560 | 39650 | 1 | > | 25 | 1100 | 1430 | 39650 | 1 | ---
**Author:** ![Necro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Necro](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Necro)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/8 "2023-11-06T21:35:15Z")
Nice reply’s, and thank you. Higure: you are (were) #1 on the open tournament, but the point value offered to me was to low to allow me to advance. ![IMG_0179](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/e/ef6d3e4bb446c28d0f81d9ab98497bff15cf18b1.jpeg) I bested all 3 of these, without losing a single point, ![IMG_0180](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/7/762b5ab8a054ef4f5fa44873e517eb67e2d00b74.jpeg) Yet, the score was not enough to count. In the depiction CJM would be my first choice as he offers the best points. OOhOOm: thank you for your chart. It still does not help as offering these top players at the point level so displayed, does not make sense. The 3331 points of the #1 player increased to 4320 with my one hit kill. Yet that increase, on a perfect match, not advancing me in the game seems to violate the rules. Also, I am a 3300 gear level. The offered players are less, not at, above or near my gear score. Very confusing. ---
**Author:** ![00h00m](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/00h00m/32/3601_2.png) [@00h00m](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/00h00m)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/9 "2023-11-06T22:28:07Z")
@Necro I think you are missing some understanding of the fundamentals of the format. - The player in first place (or any rank) has no bearing on how many points they are “worth” when you fight them. Player value is based on Gear Score and Citadel Levels. It is more complicated than this, but that is the basic idea. - The maximum score you can get from a player is their +xxxx X 1.3 So the screenshot above CJM should give 3540 X 1.3 = 4602 Your fight against Higure gives 3331 x 1.3 = 4320 (as expected) - Any armor, resistance, or health loss as the end of the fight will reduce your score. I think you know this one, but I thought it was worth restating. Reflect can really play havoc on the ability to keep armor full at the end of a fight. The chart I supplied is only theoretical in order to show the problem with being one of the top point ‘givers’. You probably fall into this category because your gear score is so high. Since you cannot fight yourself, your maximum achievable score is lower. EDIT (to add): Once you have a score from a player in your top10 list you will no longer get matched against that opponent. Once you have “filled” your top10 list with the best opponents you will only be offered opponents that will not improve your score. ---
**Author:** ![jose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/jose/32/6984_2.png) [@jose](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/jose)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 9:22am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/10 "2023-11-07T09:22:33Z")
Hi Necro, Some of my kingdom mates have explained in detail and I also do not think anyone is exploiting PvP. It’s just that the system as such is flawed. We can only hope coming updates will make it better, if not flawless. Till then let’s keep enjoying the game and keep complaining. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Necro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Necro](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Necro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/11 "2023-11-07T14:50:52Z")
Hi Jose: Thank you, Higgs, and OOhOOm, whom ever that be, for trying to get through my thick skull the short comings of PvP. The central idea presented is that “perceived “ strength dictates how many points are offered when choosing an opponent. Since my inclination is to take the opponent with the highest point strength, and every day I went down in rank, the points offered were insufficient to allow me to progress. So, there is a flaw. Kafka sent me inks to previous updates with an explanation that the pairing algorithm change should help. Yet, as seen in the screenshot I sent, I am not offered an opponent that it’s the algorithm that can increase my score. Were it just one or two pairings perhaps a faulty formula is to blame. Yet, checking my top 10 list, after day 1, only on day 3 when I finally got a round with Outlander, did I get another top score. So, you are concerned that I feel there is exploitation going on, and I still feel that way. Where that exploitation arises awaits further investigation. I thank you heartily for your time and information. Necro sent this. ---
**Author:** ![KerGiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KerGiz](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KerGiz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/12 "2023-11-07T18:31:43Z")
Have you felt this new weeks pairing system in Elite … off? I am not exactly proud of it, but… ![eliteblue](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/b/be0c6d732b6264cb90531820546f80546d24d410.jpeg) First I got the oriental guy, who is certainly the top one, but I lost. I get a decent second opponent and won, but lost the third. The fourth is good enough. Then the game began to give me opponent with 2300-2000 base points, which are honor-farming level normally. At the end of the week lowest point on the top ten is usually from 2800 base point opponents. I was always choosing the best one. Where were the other 6 opponent from the top? Anybody got these weird pairings? @jeto Do you know of some changes, or just a bad RNG? Will I got better opponents tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![00h00m](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/00h00m/32/3601_2.png) [@00h00m](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/00h00m)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/13 "2023-11-07T19:19:31Z")
What is your gear score? ---
**Author:** ![KerGiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KerGiz](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KerGiz)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/14 "2023-11-07T21:19:26Z")
2756 pts in blue. The last blue League was all right, I even finished in the top 10. Usually I am in the top 50, and I am able to defeat all the top 10 opponents (sometimes from 5-10 tries 😅). So this behaviour is new for me. I am in Champion since ages… ---
**Author:** ![00h00m](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/community.puzzlequest3.com/00h00m/32/3601_2.png) [@00h00m](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/00h00m)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/15 "2023-11-07T21:58:48Z")
The only thing I can think is that since it is so early in the tournament you may have run out of opponents that had joined so far. I notice on day 1 I get many opponents that are from the ‘cache’ of non-tournament opponents. I can tell because their gear and minions is off color from the current tournament. I honestly think they need to stop this behavior of co-mingling leagues and previous weeks. If there are no opponents, it should just say so and make us come back to fight after more people have joined. ---
**Author:** ![KerGiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KerGiz](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KerGiz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 5:05am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/16 "2023-11-08T05:05:58Z")
It may be that, but it is still a major behaviour change somehow… because I played 16 hours after daily reset (I am in Europe, and played after work). Never experienced similar thing before, always got full League in the first afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![ed.209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/94ad74/32.png) [@ed.209](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/ed.209)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/17 "2023-11-08T14:49:00Z")
The whole system just seems unnecessarily complicated to the pint of being just plain mental. Why not just add up all of the points you receive and get rewarded at certain thresholds of the tier system? Also, some people just want to farm honour, rather than place high. Couldn’t the three opponent options be one low, one medium and one high level? That way it opens up the tournament to people with different goals. ---
**Author:** ![KerGiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KerGiz](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KerGiz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/18 "2023-11-08T16:12:06Z")
> [@ed.209](#): > > Couldn’t the three opponent options be one low, one medium and one high level? It is planned that way. The first opponent is about equal strength of yours, the second is higher, and the third gives the ‘whales’ is point-descending order. At least it should be, yesterday I experienced otherwise. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![KerGiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KerGiz](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/KerGiz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/19 "2023-11-08T17:13:00Z")
> [@00h00m](#): > > The only thing I can think is that since it is so early in the tournament you may have run out of opponents that had joined so far. Oh it is NOT full League. The last person on the board is 91st. Is the Champion League divided into smaller segments than before? I will definitely keep an eye on the off color opponents. The oriental person who is usually first, haven’t come again yet… ---
**Author:** ![Necro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Necro](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/u/Necro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 6:48am UTC](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024/20 "2023-11-13T06:48:04Z")
![IMG_0188](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/b/bd3398192b365c047934ec967dc55dfb9068e6bd.jpeg) ![IMG_0189](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/uploads/puzzlequest3/original/2X/2/21a8d9243a5979a355a2115a85206a7a8d0a72fd.jpeg) Choice at the end of the tournament, same as the beginning. Top players, yet I cannot get enough points to advance. How can players go top 10, yet give such low points? There are rumors out there. [Next page](https://community.puzzlequest3.com/t/pvp-not-getting-a-top-opponent/4024.md?page=2)