They should post video of the WIP stuff, as writing isn’t really their strong suit.
I disagree, the post perfectly explains the rework, step by step and in full detail. The issue is that there is a ton of information so that time and effort is needed to fully understand everything. But I believe the post itself is really well written.
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Layout is everything.
Information should always be conveyed as concisely as possible. I write a ton of sales briefs and our policy is always to keep it as short as possible without skipping any key information. A flowchart paints 200 words…
They’ve intermixed their justification for their decisions in amongst the information about the decision itself, and as a result it’s too jumbled.
There should be a separate section about every change, followed by the reasoning, for example:
Change A
Feature X will now be changed to Feature Y. This will now involve:
- Thing 1
- Thing 2
Reasons for this decision:
- Reason 1
- Reason 2
Change B
…
Below is a direct link to the heading Introducing: The Forge System. Which is 1/3 of the way through the blog.
Everything above that heading is about the decision making. Everything below are the details of how it all works. (So you could skip reading everything above that heading if you only care about how things work)
Below the Introducing: The Forge System. heading:
They give definitions of the 3 main things you can do
Then they give details of the 3 main things you can do under the respective headings with examples.
Lastly the Appendix of what everything costs.
There is HEAPS to get your head around with so many options but personally I thought it was well done. I can see how someone gets a bit overwhelmed after reading the first half and doesn’t fully take in the 2nd half as this did happen to me upon first reading the blog, but after re-reading the 2nd half under that heading half I don’t think I have any questions.
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My point is, people often use 20 words when 10 will do.
Thank you for the crafting changes. This looks like it was a massive amount of work.
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Another question, will seasonal gear be craftable?
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This looks awesome, and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Already theroycrafting build upgrades.
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I’d be surprised. I’ve asked them that before, they said they’d talked about it but weren’t sure how/where to implement it.
I’d like to see each season chapter have a “workshop” tab for the gear-makers:
Story | Battles | Rewards | Workshop
Welll thankyou for confirming that the stereotype “as dumb as an Australian” has some basis in real life. But that was not really what we wanted. We wanted for mid gear people a way to upgrade their gear. Instead you created once again a system for end-level players.
- No gear-rarity upgrade until you have a follower at level 50 ?? My highest is 48. In general no mid level player can use the ‘refine’ option.
- Is there really someone in that development team that thinks that someone who has a level 50 follower will upgrade a ‘rare’ to epic using a glyph??
- But the player can craft!. Sure…throw away 500 Aether to get some Mythic with random attributes. Because to get a good one you need to chose the attributes. And that cost…drum roll… Follower cyrstals which a mid player needs to level up the followers. And even more funnier…Glyphs! Anyone over there still remember that the Spell/Batlle scrolls eat an enormous amount of those? No mid level player has a surplus of those.
- of course we could get a random Mythic and and then just reforge it. But to give it a bit of direction you need to lock in the good stuff…and that costs…drum roll…Folllower crystals.
So basically, for a mid-level player there is still no way to improve the gear since everything requires end-level resources. You are still completely dependent on RNG. And if you geniuses hadn’t noticed it : there are plenty of RNG games. Throwing away a factor that makes you unique, namely the build it to your taste factor, is usually the beginning of the end.
I can find myself in the way you are getting rid of the double mythics by using them up in quality improvements. But again…end level stuff.
I’m bitterly disappointed in this text. You haven’t listened at all to your community. You are unable to look through the eyes of a mid level player. You offer possibilities that are nothing more than scams. You keep pushing RNG in apparently some hope to make the game last longer without actually having to invest in new content.
As answer to our concerns this text is complete flop. I suppose the last chance is your incorporation of the feedback. Somewhere I think you made the costs so outrageous on purpose, so you can play the hero when you mitigate them. But I have about 0% trust that you will actually change any of the core mechanics. And if that doesn’t happen, then it’s just bye-bye. Find another idiot to pay for your incompetence and greed.
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Nobody says that, it’s not an expression, you’ve just made it up
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Jingoism or any other sort of xenophobic remarks are never necessary
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If you start a thread with a spiteful comment, nobody’s going to take you seriously; stick to the facts of your point
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First of all, that kind of hurtful comment is completely out of place in a constructive discussion.
Next, up to the best of my knowledge “Mythic with random attributes” was everything we could get before the Gear upgrade, since everytime we evolved an item it gained attributes at random. And it costed 6 glyphs and 4 mythic relics to get those. I find that 500 aether and 500 gems is a pretty reasonable cost for getting a specific mythic item, and gives back mid players the ability to work towards a custom mythic build.
Now, if the problem is that you also want to select your attributes (which is true that has a really high cost), then we aren’t speaking about mid-game anymore since that has always been end-level. And we should be surprised by such features having a high cost, much more when it is a new completely feature we didn’t have before. Incidentally, have you checked that attribute rerolling is now much cheaper?
I completely disagree.
- First, gear improving also required end-level resources before (2 glyphs for legendary and 4 glyphs and 4 mythic relics for mythic). So let’s remember that before the gear rework getting a custom legendary or mythic build wasn’t easy at all. You could take quite a few months to be able to get all your mythic pieces. So we shouldn’t be expecting now to have the ability to get all the mythics we want easily in just a few days.
- Second, the cost for crafting specific legendary and mythic pieces is just aether and gems, so getting a custom mythic build it is back to being a matter of time and effort as before, with the advantage of being able to speed it through farming and good luck.
In my opinion and with everything I read here, the main issue of the Gear rework was players requiring lucky drops to get the pieces they desired at mythic quality (RNG dependency). This rework will fix that by giving us the opportunity of getting those pieces without having to rely on RNG.
Now it is just a matter of whether the costs are reasonable or not. I find them to be reasonable, high enough so that getting desired mythic pieces is not too easy but low enough that we don’t spend several months to get a single piece.
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I was nice and polite in the previous threads. It clearly didn’t work. I’m pissed and they may know it.
Yes, but that was before battle scrolls.
The whole business of battle scrolls was to shift glyph costs away from specific weapons and on to the hero-build as a whole.
Now they’ve turned around and required glyphs for item-enhancing as well.
That’s simply not fair … and way too expensive for anyone who wasn’t grandfathered in with level-50 battle scrolls.
So, yes, I think Skully is right that anything that costs glyphs firewalls that game element away from any but end-game players.
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Yes, re-reading the OP again, I think you’re right.
That will depend on how much you play.
For example in the entire time since 3.0 dropped (is that 2 months now), I’ve gotten a sum total of 1000 aether.
And that was with burning through my loot tickets … which I’m nearly out of now. My pace will slow down considerably now.
If my single hero – I’m down to 1 now, because of those battle scrolls – has, in his different load-outs, 30 different items (we’ll say 2-3 different items for each slot, depending on the loadout’s purpose) … that’s YEARS for me to get just baseline gear updated, not months.
And that’s before any of the attribute selecting.
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I do realize they need to pitch the game to present challenges to their end-gamers and the handful of what appear to be basically full-time game players (which group I think gets disproportionately represented both on in-game chat and in the forums) … but I don’t think it’s wise to set the bar so high that the more casual players (some of whom might level-up to the full time players) feel shut out.
Which is, granted, a tricky balance … but I think they’ve made it too expensive, as proposed.
With lots of gear to get, and maybe even multiple heroes to pursue, I think crafting/refining could be a bit cheaper and more accessible – so that casual and mid-game players feel encouraged rather than overwhelmed – without any danger of having end-game players max out!
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I guess we differ here. I consider that epic-legendary is where you experiment and that mythic should be just for your final top build.
My new account, starting from scratch and in only one month with minor chest farming has already 3 great mythics and 750 aether. Therefore it should take me only a few months to get a full mythic build, which I find reasonable due to my view of mythics as truly end game stuff.
But it is true that my belief comes from my experience previous to the rework, so I may have accepted now what before I considered to be too a expensive cost. However, now that mythics can also be obtained from chests and are therefore more readily available I don’t find the costs unreasonable. This is my opinion, more casual players probably feel it too high indeed. My point, though, is that the cost will probably be similar to the one previous to the rework, so the goal of getting us back to a similar point as before the rework has been reached in my opinion. Now it would be a matter of whether the upgrading cost has always been reasonable or too high.
I think this is pretty much right on the mark.
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Crafting will allow you to get an item for slot/set/color … as it should. And that is open to mid-level players, and isn’t random.
But I think those costs as proposed are about 2-3x what they should be (especially in aether) given the rate at which non-full-time-gamers (which I presume is the majority of the player base) accrues the resource.
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I’ll actually disagree with Skully about the attributes. While I’d certainly like control over tweaking those to be less costly in end-game resources that mid-level players simply don’t have (i.e. glyphs and follower crystals), it makes sense to have a “phase” of gear-improvement that is specifically targeted at end-gamers.
Attribute tweaking and mythic-base-quality improving are, arguably, good choices for that.
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The biggest flaw, in addition to costs, in the proposed system, IMHO, is the RARITY REFINING
That should be open to mid-game players, not isolated to end-gamers. And having it cost glyphs and the sacrifice of coordinated already-rarer pieces makes it and end-gamer-only mechanism.
It also makes no sense … it costs more to do something this way, when you already have the gear item most of the way to the “goal”, than it costs to make it from scratch.
That’s silly.
Refining rarity shouldn’t costs glyphs or sacrificing other gear.
It should cost the proposed resources (expensive but tolerable) plus the difference in aether between the two quality tiers. … So, for example, to refine the rarity of an item from legendary to mythic should cost (if the current aether rates - which I think are too high - are kept), 400 aether. 500-100.
That would make this part of crafting accessible to mid-to-late-mid-game players, rather than having nearly all of these proposed changes so expensive that only end-game players will ever be able to make meaningful use of them.
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As it stands, I think Skully is basically right … for the casual and mid-game players, the propose crafting scheme has little impact, other than the very occasional chance to make a high-end item with accumulated aether.
Based on the proposal (if I’m reading it correctly), this 3.1.5 update will do little to change the pre-end-game experience from being a RNG-drop / gacha / slotmachine game.
I agree with that.
Before 3.0, I’d done my experimenting and had epic builds (and a few legendary pieces) for all 7 heroes. … Generally, I had half-a-dozen different builds (e.g. different ones for skirm vs dungeon vs KD vs PvP) for each hero.
I was just starting to work toward mythic when 3.0 landed.
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Now I have one hero I’m working on, and a mix of legendary/epic pieces in the builds.
For that hero, if I wanted to get all the pieces in all the builds to mythic, it’d be somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 pieces.
So that’s years as a non-full-time-game-player.
And that’s before I then try to tweak their attributes and upgrade their base quality!
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Making rarity-refining accessible to mid-gamers (instead of, as it’s proposed, just end-gamers) ought to be part of that gear-improving process. … And it actually makes more logical sense:
Early player: Random gear – explores the game, does the story, experiments with gear
Mid-player: Build gear – upgrades gear to base-level mythic by crafting and by rarity-improving
End-player: Refine gear – tweaks gear attributes and upgrades mythics’ base quality
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With the aether-expensive crafting as the only mechanism under the 3.1.5 proposal that’s open to pre-end-game players (i.e. those who have glyphs and follower crystals and mythics to burn), the mid-game experience is still going to be one of being nearly entirely dependent on the random drops and “spinning of wheels” on gameplay that’s lost its novelty.
The ability to fully customize load-outs will be of great fun to the existing end-gamers. The devs have done a good job catering to that crowd.
But, for the most part, 3.1.5 is still leaving the rest of us out in the cold.
Just as reference, before the rework upgrading an item to mythic costed 6 glyphs and 4 mythic relics, which could very well take over a month for more casual players. My point is that getting full mythic builds have never been designed for casual mid-players, but for players spending lots of money or time. So it is not “devs have robbed casual mid-players their ability to get full mythic custom builds” but “they have never given them that ability”.
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As a mid level player you can indeed get a few glyphs. I had no issue dumping them into gear. Slow and costly as it was. But since these are now going to battlescrolls, you can’t compare the new cost with the old one. You can only spend a glyph once. And also : leveling up got you indeed an extra attribute at random. But people didn’t (or at least I didn’t) level up gear where you weren’t satisfied with the existing stats. Which is still better then random which can be all over the place.