Update 1.2 - The Broken Tree

I think there are two issues here:

Sure - Overkill should be a thing
Since I’m currently basking in the warm glow of inventory space for the one of a handful of times ever, I’m not clear on how quickly overkill will be implemented - though I am sure its been passed on

In the meantime, by rolling the start time by -2 hours each day, everyone should get “equal” chance to get the maximum benefit - likely 100% some days and 0% others, maybe average out to 75% of the theoretical maximum possible benefits
Compare that to how it was, I think this is clearly better - and it’s here, now, live, in the game

I’m comparing it to itself, because how it was before was nonexistent. Kingdom bosses =/= prior kingdom bazaar. My analysis is based entirely on the mode itself.

You make a fair point Bosses <> bazaar
I was really trying to compare daily resets Vs. 22 hourly resets

If we want to keep getting specific, aren’t you actually not comparing it to itself but rather to what you think it should be? :wink:

Anyway, I think everyone agrees that overkill would be an improvement

In the meantime, by rolling the start time by -2 hours each day, everyone should get “equal” chance to get the maximum benefit - likely 100% some days and 0% others, maybe average out to 75% of the theoretical maximum possible benefits

This is assuming that all people have equal sleep schedules and play schedules. However, those with certain commitments cannot log in regardless - due to sleep, family life, work, etc.

Whereas a bachelor with an IT job can set an alarm for 3 AM to complete the boss fight then go back to sleep.

This will end up creating a more toxic guild environment, similar to the food deal.

Yes, that is the nature of feedback. If we didn’t compare things to the way we think they should be then we would just nod and say thank you when they continuously take things away or prevent players from logging in and participating in activities.

Just comparing Fixed reset to rolling 22 hour reset

The best time for each player to log in will vary
(by timezone, by time of day, perhaps week to week with certain commitments)
HOWEVER with a rolling “reset” the best times will sometimes match up, sometimes not
Fixed daily reset - which I am sure for many players was rarely (if ever) at a good time, this rolling reset time is objectively better because at least some of the time it is good

And sure, players with greater flexibility could live their life arounds a rolling 22 hour day and always be there for “best time”
But those players could more easily set the alarm for the same time everyday under the fixed time system, so rolling is no worse than fixed when taking into account die-hard players

As discussed - and I think agreed - overkill would be an elegant solution

I agree a rolling reset is more fair, but I dont think it is sufficient to give a good customer experience. The boss fight is also a one-of-a-kind mechanic presently, as the boss is completely immune, likely has different spells and it is purely a damage race.

So to clarify if we use the ingot bazaar fresh and a member hasn’t bought any items yet will it add a +1 to there bazaar shop for the items?

Apparently we got evidence that Assassin Ulti effect does show up on the boss:
debuff

Maybe use some of the food to fuel the auto-play feature?

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I agree with this. At Tier IV (the next boss up) we can assume based on the prior bosses that it will have ~225k health. The Gold award requires ~45k damage. Notwithstanding the current bug reported in the thread above, that means only 5 of 30 members have a chance at the Gold reward. If the Kingdom Bazaar rework was done based on the voluminous feedback that the structure disadvantaged members based on who logs in first, why would you create an event that literally does the same thing, but even worse! (Please I beg you, and you know who you are, do not bring up the 22 hour timer and say “Well that’s how other people will get their chance”, because we all know that’s not how reality works for those who only login once per day).

Please balance the damage-based reward tiers and boss HP better (or even better, adopt an Overkill mode just like virtually every game that has a similar game format).

EDIT: Another thing, the reward tiers seem to be advancing very quickly as regards resources. The Tier IV Boss has a higher chance to reward Superior Shards than anything else. Yet again, until Shards are made downgradable (which they should be) this constant bypassing of Major Shards over Superior Shards doesn’t make any sense. Furthermore, the chance to get a Legendary Rune/Scroll is higher than Epics which, as has been recounted in literally dozens of places for a year, Epics are the most needed Rune/Scroll for progression.

Why do you, the designers, make everything so incoherent?

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I am a kingdom leader and have not even been able to get in before the boss is dead. I only can imagine how bad it is for others in the kingdom.

Overkill just makes sense. This kingdom rework has really made it harder to keep the kingdom together

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It’s worse than that, unfortunately.

EDIT: This paragraph was been shown by Sibellos to be inaccurate and has been removed.

There’s only 100 possible percent to go around over the entire guild, as currently implemented. That means with perfectly balanced damage, only 6 players max per guild can earn a Silver reward and only 4 players can earn a Gold. Subtract at least 1 from each of those totals at a minimum because such a balanced output is not realistically happening.

Consequentially, only the Top 5 damage dealers in the guild have a chance at the Silver reward.

Could the situation get even worse? Oh yes, it absolutely does.

Adding the Gold reward to the mix, makes the analysis even more dire. Why? Because every player that earns a Gold reward potentially takes away a Silver reward from a player that would otherwise have earned it.

Some light math easily shows this dilemma in action.

Five players score in percent: 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. All five players earn a Silver reward, none get Gold.

But what if the top player overperforms (or worse multiple players)? As the top player(s) scores more and more damage, there is fewer and fewer percentage points remaining for other guild players to qualify for Silver and Gold rewards.

Five players score in percent: 30, 30, 20, 10, 10. The top 2 get Silver and Gold awards, 3rd place gets Silver, and 4th and 5th get just the basic participation reward.

As the dragons will get harder and harder, those with the best equipment will pull away from those without it and consistently monopolize top positions on the kingdom leaderboard. The result is an extremely hostile scoring system that punishes the vast majority of the kingdom as they will have no hope of ever outperforming those with 2.5k, 3k, or higher gear scores over time.

The question then becomes what to do about the situation?

I like the idea, but I’m at a loss how to prevent this from being exploited. What’s to stop a guild from coordinating working the HP on a dragon down to ~5% and then waiting for all 30 players to log on all at once for one massive series of overkills, resulting in total kingdom damage of 5x or more of the dragon’s max HP? If that was allowed, I would presume the required changes would likely mandate a huge nerfing of rewards considering the potential for at least half the guild being able consistently earn Gold rewards via overkill damage.

This might be the better option, especially for the Silver tier. Let the top players compete for the Gold prizes, while keeping the Silver bar low enough that the Gold players don’t muscle the Silver players out of their prizes while giving them an opportunity to use Kingdom Defenses for a viable method for account growth. Perhaps reduce the Silver threshold to 10% or lower?

Thoughts?

Your expectation of overkill appears different to my expectation. My expectation is just to allow damage to continue to count and be accrued after it is dead, in the end you have one dead dragon and everyone could participate for rewards.

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Silver and gold rewards should just be for everyone, if you participated and got your damage in, so helping out the kingdom, you get something. Or do i have to fight a dragon 3x a day for months to come just for the defeat email?

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Following up on this topic,

Shaman Bad Juju does not stick on a spirit dragon, resulting in a very significant damage handicap for Shamans in kingdom defense events.

it actually has not been consistent (using my elementary math skills)

Thanks for the update.

I was suspicious of this after yesterday’s Tier IV run, but was out with family for the holiday to do any real number crunching. As you have posted the Tier V run numbers (which I have not experienced yet), the quoted statement needs to be changed as it is indeed inaccurate.

It looks like this might be a consistent 10% of the Basic Rewards. Anyone else can confirm?

Are personal Silver/Gold rewards given out if the guild fails to defeat the dragon?