Flametree helm is empowering turn zero pvp


Flametree helm is breaking PvP. Previously, you nerfed everyone’s gear that could compete and have a Turn Zero win in PvP. I had several pieces of gear that were rendered obsolete in this change. Now people are able to do it again with Flametree Helm.

Please adjust Flametree helm down to where it is inline with things like Bone Ring and Dragonguard Helm.


or as has been suggested a number of times previously, make Starting Mana hard capped at 80%.


If I was cynical (which I totally am if you haven’t gathered by my previous posts) this is probably intentional to make people spend money on the season passes…

my hope is this item was designed prior to the rebalancing that nerfed all of our t0 gear.

Actually no one got a 2500 score at the running 2 dark based tourneys.
I agree it might be possible for someone in future.
Compared to dragonguard helm I also think it is oversized. To keep the Flametree gear still worth buying and using halfening the starting mana values is best compromise for now I think.

I’m also one of Flametree helm user and find it quite overpowered. You guys reduced the mana gain from almost everything, why this one was ignored…?

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Just a note, simply nerfing the numbers for flametree helmet wont fix the issue, it will just kick the problem forward a few more months (mythic bone rings, more flamepact, etc.).



There’s a multiple things that need adjusting. The pre-nerf OP Flametree helm, the fact that the Elven Charm can proc multiple times on the same turn, new spells that were introduced with seasons that are sub-100 mana to cast, etc, etc.

Amplifying Sibellos’s comment,

This is the lowest hanging fruit solution to the issue without nerfing the heck out of everything again. That said, the 80% cap has to applied after ALL sources of starting mana generation are evaluated and not 80% per source individually. Otherwise, as Wokel points out, any other individual nerfs just kicks the can down the road an update or two and we will be right back to threads like this again.


I have to make an correction first: since yesterday 6 players did a 2500 score in the open tourney probably based on flametree helm.

I think it dont make it true and the best solution if someone repeatedely put the same argument and figure into discussion.

  1. Limitation of starting mana to 80%
    Limitation below 100% will hinder a 2500 score. So, also 90 or 99% is good enough. Why 80?
    Please consider that this value also has a drastic effect on the start of normal fights. If you cannot fill the spells with a 3-match at first board it is nearly impossible to win a lvl100 fight.
    Additionally this will devaluate many legendary and mythic gear, means loosing a lot of money.
    But for PvP only it could be realized by a general debuff as in case of the event tourneys.
  2. Mana generation of elven charm
    This was already drastically reduced and the gear devaluated. It is up to everyone to use it and take its advantage. Not every people likes to play dark and dead. For the paladin it helps a lot because filling the board with light gems is not so easy as with other hero classes.
    On the other hand: why no one screams about dark ice and night blade? This is too mighty in my eyes and one of the reasons many people play an assassin.

As already mentioned in a post before I agree and suggest that that flametree helm should be degraded: more adapted to the dragonguard helm; at least starting mana halved

In principle the 2500 score story reflects the situation that now too many players ( last tourney more than 60) are on first position but with total different strenght.
I think it is now time to create new tourney classes ( maybe ruby and diamond) above champion.


Someone in my Elite Tournament does have one 2500 round.

at this point, over 25k gems have been removed from the economy by this and we have another day to go.

@Jeto @OminousGMan @Kafka can we get some feedback here? was this item over looked when the rest of the gear was nerfed? or should we all accept that if we want 500 gems / week, we need to have a homogenized build?


I would love to have all the mana gen stuff that I invested tons of resources in earlier be reinstated to their original values if this is where we are now.


Hey everyone!

Thank you for your feedback on the Flametree Helm. I have brought this to the attention of the Development Team and they do acknowledge that there is a bit of a balancing issue with this piece of gear.

They’re going to review the Flametree Helm and get that rebalanced.

Thanks again for the feedback it’s really appreciated.

OminousGMan - Support Human :male_detective:


Thank you for an unusually quicker response. It will be for the betterment of the majority of players, for sure.

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Rebalancing a piece of gear still does not address the root issue which is that starting mana should be capped, because as more items are introduced, each item being nerfed after the fact is not going to be enough.

Feedback: please cap Starting Mana at less than 100%, ideally 80% just like the other hard caps that exist on the game for consistency


I agree that this doesnt solve the issue, as it will be a question again in a matter of weeks/-months.

I also really want to note:

This isnt early access anymore. Gear is expensive to create. If you are going to rebalance gear which people invested resources into, we should in this case gain the opportunity to refund our investments.

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Since mana add effect is technically not a starting mana effect, they should apply a rule such as “player cannot fully charge their spell at the beginning of turn 1” (it will become something like 134/135 if you have more than 135 charged), rather than set a hard cap for starting mana % bonus. This may help solve the problem completely.

Your example is a hard cap, it’s just 99% instead of 80%. Its the same solution, just a different number.

Also it already works that way for instance with Block Chance. Guard Shield says “Add X% to Block Chance” but yet Block chance cannot increase beyond 80%. Bone Rings say to add X Start Mana, so just have Start Mana not exceed 80%. I’m not sure how that is inconsistent or treated differently.

You can have all the block chance increases you want but you wont exceed 80%. Why is so hard to apply that to Starting Mana which is expressed in a %.

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If the title of the subject was, instead, ‘starting mana is empowering turn zero pvp’, would this root cause have been properly fixed?

This change is hamhanded. I absolutely hate it when pvp changes messes with pve.


This is a really great point. So many items have been diminished back in the last great mana nerfing when many of the items were great on their own and allowed interesting gear combinations in various game formats, but then all were neutered (Dragonhelm, bone rings, etc) such that they were abandoned as lacking utility (PvP turn 0 scoring was just the biggest glaring issue that changed). If the Starting Mana cap had been fixed from the start, all those items could have existed happily and allowed lots more interesting gear set building.