Is turn zero PVP for 25000 points a bug or is it expected behaviour

Seeing this week in PVP that every color has a turn zero build in the top bracket is quite … interesting.

For the uninitiated, turn zero PVP is where you can fire off a spell and win without even having to touch 1 gem on your initial first turn. Quite the gameplay loop for a game based around matching gems isn’t it? I have the gear to level up my own build for it, but such gear enabling that has been nerfed in the past making me frustrated that it has come again to this point.

Dear @Jeto and @Kafka and @OminousGMan:

I’m going to be crystal clear and I think the player base you have left deserve a clear answer.

Is this what PVP is supposed to be? Are you going to nerf the gear in the future that enables people to score 25000 in PVP this way?

Please advise.


T0 PVP is, in my opinion, degenerate gameplay that primarily rewards whales and punishes new and f2p players who don’t have the gems for infinite glyphs and attribute rerolls to get the gear for every color. I understand the urge to give the whales something to spend the big bucks on, but it’s this really how the PVP mode should work? Is it really about giving whales a place to p2w? It just feels … Yuck.


Yes, not even giving a definite answer to such an important part of the game is real bad. Especially since, as already mentioned, @Jeto herself had pointed out that they are considering bringing about a mana cap or whatsoever to make a change to, this so called T0 matter. Answer please, …


i´ve been complaining about this for months. everyone i ever spoke to hates this.
everybody is forced to use the same gear and setup, something that´s impossible for non whales to begin with. why even have different gear if you´re not supposed to use it?

i´ve been playing since the early beta with citatdel lvl over 170. i´ve seen the game getting worse and worse, with the sole exception that coop crashes are less frequent now but what does that matter now that everything else is shit? i´ve been hanging on because some of my friends were still playing. but most of them have long stopped playing and the few that remained have quit precisely because of that and i think i´m gonna follow their example. it´s the number one thing i see people complain about in the chat. and it´s beeing ignored and ignored and ignored.
and it´s not like it´s a hard fix you could just give 500 to the 24750 folk as well. but instead you get a slap in the face and get insulted 50 or 100.


Putting aside the debate over the appropriateness of T0, it’s a pretty simple question–can you clarify whether T0 is intended or if there will be an adjustment to prevent T0 wins.


Agree it’s bad for the game. At least the previous T0 meta was easier to obtain. I can do T0 in open and in one color restricted, now. I did not buy it or reroll it. I use my regular gear except for weapons. I just have looted a lot of pact gear for one hero. My other heroes have like none. Which is another issue. So much randomness. Some people get flooded with nifty KD attributes, some get a pile of pact and smart. :eyes:

I think, at the very least, they should cap the pvp at 24750. Even if they just do it temporarily, until they can figure out how they want to really handle it.


It’s super unlikely that the devs will cap PvP at 24750 because any moderate-tier account with access to a Savior Helm and the Royal II set bonus (super easy) can reach that score. The devs are unlikely to change PvP scoring in a way that allows for a 50+ account tie at 1st place, even if temporary in scope. They might throw some comp gems at everyone after all is said and done instead, though I’m skeptical that comp would be given in this situation.

At the very least, if the devs do not change PvP, then T0 wins makes irrelevant all Mighty pets (what’s the point of them if they never get a single turn to accumulate mana for their spells, outside of the very miniscule player stat bump). That alone should strongly signal that T0 wins were not intended game design for PvP.

Though, I’m guessing that such changes would internally be perceived as a nerf and kept silent until the day said PvP changes go into effect.

On the other hand, I’ll sign onto the petition for at least an official statement of the acknowledgement of the problem and that development of the planned solution is somewhere in the active development pipeline (crossing fingers for 1.5, as the roadmap has been 100% silent on its planned contents to date).


Hey all,

T0 PVP battles are definitely not how we intend this to be played.

I am getting some clarification from the team, as we already have some changes planned relating to the Flametree Helm and starting Mana % caps.

This was mentioned previously in this thread, but we haven’t had anything further to share as the team have been reviewing other gear pieces.

Again, this is an active discussion currently and once there is something more concrete such as an expected update these changes will release in and/or the details of what changes will be made, one of the team or myself will update here or the thread linked above as it was an existing discussion.


Ok, good. Hope “reviewing other gear pieces”, meant the latest T0 helper, “Fallen Ring” also. It’s good that you bring out new powerful gear, but first think about the sort of repercussions such gear or spells can bring about. Anyway looking for a speedy ‘end’ to T0.


Please fix this issue! I have lost thousands of gems over the months because of this and always placing #2 because I refuse to abuse this mechanic like so many others do. I want to win #1 place because of my skill not because I abuse a zero turn kill mechanic that gives the opposing player no chance.


I do understand what you are saying here. But that tie scenario has been a thing since the beginning. First we were nearly all tied at 24750. Then a majority were all tied at 25000 (but not nearly all). Much angst ensued. Nerfs happened. Then we were back to nearly all tied at 24750.

Now a growing minority are up to 25000 and the angst returned. This has STOPPED the huge tie for top prize. I guess what I am saying is that stopping the tie hasn’t seemed to be anything close to a priority, so far. So (just my personal opinion) temporarily capping the max score, until they have a permanent plan, would just put things back where they have been. This would help with player morale, which would help with player retention.


not gonna lie my morale about PVP is in the toilet the way it is now. :frowning:


I appreciate the reply Jeto… but how many weeks until this gets taken care of? Yet another week where all categories have a 25000 score. Another week missing out on 1500 gems… I don’t even bother playing PVP anymore past getting the participation awards


I completely stopped playing PvP because of this! Used to be great getting my 1500 gems a week.


I took pride today taking 2 minutes to work out how to move gems to fill my first and second spell on turn 1 when the gems I needed to do this were all over the board. This is a match 3 game after all.


Many members already have dropped in to point out their opinion I totally share even if I am also able to do 25k.

But if the whole system never was planned working this way, CHANGE IT! And yes, a complete new code seems far better than “adjusting” PVP with small ideas.

I understand many things may have higher priorities on your list but this issue hasn’t just started with 25k. Even before the 24.750 have been questioned for a possible change by many players - so don’t let your community suffer from this much longer, we DO NOT deserve this.

And yes, the community is much more important to me than personal rewards because everyone still sticking with the Puzzlequest 3 doesn’t play a game designed for singleplayers.


It’s kinda… Not pleasant… to realise that, provided the t4 relics I’ve come across and not had the gems to purchase over the last few, what? Months at this point… Were for the same 1 or 2 sets, I’d have at least one mythic by now if turn 0 pvp wins weren’t a thing for a small portion of the player base. Must be close to 10k gems down the drain (if not beyond 10k) at this point because of this “feature”. It sure as hell doesn’t feel good!

Edit: Hmm…Makes me feel even worse for those who’ve been playing since before the game was on Steam…


I so feel you man :frowning:

so it won´t be fixed then? at least that´s what i´m reading from the reply. nerfing gear a bit isn´t a fix, that´s what happened last time, and obviously that´s just a way to get whales to pay even more for the next broken gear that comes along.

how can this not be intended when this is known problem for a loong time? you had the opportunity to fix it the last time this came up and didn´t do so for the reasons stated above.

now i have no doubt at all that the devs were all for actually fixing the problem (as in having a 24750 cap or having a fair payout like 450 for 24750 and the full 500 for the whales so they can still feel superior to the peasents.)
but unfortunately the devs are not the ones making the decisions, since this is getting people to spend more money to get (back) to 25k

it´s just a matter of how many paying people quit versus how much the existing whales can be enticed to pay even more than they already have due to sunk cost fallcy.


Another week, again all categories are 25000. Love that