I’m making this thread as a place to throw questions that I’ve seen get asked in our various community chats, but don’t seem to have a definitive answer anywhere and also don’t really warrant their own thread.
Feel free to add your own.
What conditions or stats determine the ‘Last MVP’ in Kingdom Defense when there is more than one person that dealt 36,330,700 dmg? (or similar equal score)
What determines the ‘point value’ of your opponents in Versus Tournies?
What is ‘Extra Damage’ in the Offense section of your Citadel and is it worth actually allocating points in to it over Power?
Is this a number 4, shadow or part of the building structure?
Extra damage is just that, extra damage…to EVERYTHING you do. You get a 0.2% extra damage boost per citadel point spent. The general consensus being that its just bad, that power trumps it. Certainly in a utility sense Power is better, since its affects healing and boosting as well, while extra damage is just extra damage. But I do wonder if people might be sleeping on this? When you do damage calculation, everything is added and multiplied together and then extra damage is added at the strike itself. So even if it seems underwhelming on paper, lets look at Insect Plague as an example.
My Insect Plague does 54,833 damage on the spell description. But hitting the same green element enemy with a non critical strike, I add my +121.6% poison damage from gear, which is basically extra damage and now I hit the enemy (LV 98 Poison Djinn) for 316,032 damage!
So is extra damage worth running? I dunno, but the above example it certainly seems promising. Its never really been experimented with to my knowledge, only on paper by PQ3 scholars like Higure, and on paper it doesn’t seem worth using. But remember in this game that everything stacks, you start stacking defense 80% elite protection reduces the boss strike of 1000 lets say to 200, then 80% block now its 40, barrier now its 20, 80% melee resistance now its 4, paladin gems, etc. To the point where the attack is rendered insignificant. And if defense works like this, then the same logic can be applied to offense. So what if instead of one or the other, you spent points in both? That could potentially be more rewarding, but I’ve never heard of anyone actually trying it in application in the game, only in theory. And its always all extra damage or all power, never a even split of both, except of course with gear, and you can clearly see how good that is.
You’re right, fortunately I saved the video. Poison and Wither (blind, confuse). Serpentine set bonus 4 - Increase power by 6% when a green enemy enters battle (although that should show in the spell damage description 54,833, so I don’t think that’s a factor), just the poison and wither.
Power is mathematically better than extra damage in every case I can think of, by a good amount.
a spell that gives 55149 goes down to 51351 when I drop 707 power off my gear score.
So basically adding 9% power added 7.4% damage to my spell. 50 points in Extra damage would get you 10%, but the same 50 points would double your power. Since power has no cap in the citadel, there is no reason to put your points in ED over Power.
That specific question was slightly rhetorical as, although I was pretty sure Power trumped it by quite a margin, there doesn’t seem to be any official explanation or guide for the game (including a basic description for “Extra Damage” available on any tooltip anywhere), which doesn’t really help any potential newcomers to the game.
It’s nice to finally see that single attribute explained by some tangible maths. Just to add that Extra Damage is one of the three unique Citadel attributes, the other two being All Starting Mana and Health Bonus, that aren’t applicable as gear item attributes and, although the latter two are fairly self-explanatory, Extra Damage has remained somewhat of an enigma.
Personally I would rather have that Extra Damage replaced with something more useful such as Speed, which seems to be conspicuously absent from the Citadel.
I’m assuming that the answers to my first two questions are the real enigmas though. Probably only known by the devs themselves?
2% power usually would be greater (see below for possible exception)
1 Point of Power equates to essentially 1 point of skull damage base (a 3-skull match), then subject to the skull multiplier. 1 Point of Power equates to essentially 1-2 points of spell damage and as far as I can tell it still equates to about 2 points of mana damage. One case where I can see Extra Damage bonus being of value is on Critical Hits from skull matches (and at that point you are probably doing overkill damage anyways) If you have base Power of let’s say 1,000, then every point in the citadel is a 2% bonus to power or 20 points; if we are talking spell damage with a x2 Power multiplier, 2% bonus to Power on 1,000 base power would translate to 40 points of additional damage.
### Sibelios — 6/8/22, 11:14 AM
Now that I am thinking about it, I guess with the spell set bonuses its possible the extra damage bonus would actually be better
lets say that you have 1,000 base Power, but you also have 3,000 Mastery after the spell set bonuses, your damage on a x2 multiplier spell (lets say the spell is level 35) is ~8,000; so 1 point in Extra Damage bonus would give you 16 points of extra damage
so clearly the higher you push Mastery, the more likely you will get more extra damage from the Extra Damage Bonus, than from the points in Power
A final thought: It would also depend on when the Extra Damage Bonus is applied. If it is applied after all other modifiers (Poison, Wither, etc) then the Extra Damage Bonus would indeed be more beneficial at high Masteries
*Pretty sure extra damage is the last step in the calculation
I know this is not your quote, but it was back in the era when we were still discovering formulas for damage. Before honing, refining, etc.
Alot has changed.
“Pushing mastery” is completely independent of the Citadel choice between Extra Damage and Power.
Power scales with mastery.
Power scales with poison.
Power scales with Juju.
Power scales with Extra Damage too!
Every damage equation in the game has root scaling that grows with power.
The mere fact that the max 10% Extra Damage is calculated after everything else is actually a weakness, not an attribute. I have done some graphing and math on the subject. The point in which Extra Damage would be better is for values below about 600 power (depending on many variables). If you are running at 600 power at level 50, you really need to work on that first.
At max gear/honing level you have 3996 base power if you have put power on every piece. With the same 50 citadel points that could give you 10% ED, you could (and should) double your power instead.
If you have multiple MVP’s (high scores) then you weren’t actually the first person to kill it, even if you did kill it the fastest, everyone else who kills it is considered gets the kill too and its considered a tie as far as the game is concerned. My guess is it just picks a MVP at random from the available candidates who qualify for it. For the majority of the alliances its usually pretty cut and dry who the MVP was for that particular KD fight.
Not that either, as I’ve been the first to get the max score and I’ve got the MVP status. It has to be purely random…unless Jeto wants to ask the devs themselves and chime in? (if she could also ask them how PvP point values are calculated even better. )
I was wondering whether there were other contributing factors such as turns taken, total damage including overkills etc.
This data is discoverable with some time and effort. It has been done before with other game data. I have a general idea of what makes the number go higher. It is difficult to test in a single week though because your score only changes when it goes up.
The team has a history of not disclosing information like this. It is probably not about secrecy. Likely, it is so they can tweak things without publishing the change and updating previously shared information.
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