There is a fundamental disadvantage in the scoring system that punishes those seeded (by +pts) in the top 10.
Here is a simplified breakdown. Imagine a tournament with 25 players, the top seeded player will give 4550 (3500x1.3) to all other players who achieve a perfect victory. The problem is that seeded player 1 cannot fight themself, so they are limited to the +pts from players 2-11. Seeded player 2, same situation, but gets scores from 1 and 3-11. All the way down through the top 10 the maximum score available is less than that for all players seeded 11 and below.
This chart assumes perfect victory for all fights to help illustrate the flaw in the scoring system:
Sorry for the long post.
TL;DR: I donât know if the pairing is by ranking place or GS, there is no clear answer, the pairing seems controversial either way.
I was in the belief, that it means the 1st to 10th players on the board. It is not!
It is rather by gear score (I donât know, if the current equipped one, ore the best possible from owned gear).
Yesterday I was in a position in Yellow Restricted where my current âhighest strength playerâ opponent was Ailile. I tried 5 times against her, used up all my sigils.
Today she is nowhere in sight.
I have defeated mutizm (who is currently first) once, but the result was mediocre. I havenât met him since. Lion Knightâs and Rogozhinâs score also not in my top ten, but I did a win against them. If it wasnât a perfect win, I should encounter them again, but I didnât.
I havenât even met a 7th guy with the asian character name.
So the pairing is not by place in the league. Is it by Gear Score? No!
Because my last 4-5 choice is like this:
If it is by current ranking position, I should get Mutizm, whom I defeated, but not with perfect score (he is not on my top ten list). If it is by Gear Score, Ailie is higher than Lion Knight, so I should get her instead.
EDIT: sorry, I must take back this last sentence, Ailie is weaker than Lion Knight. BUT is Lion Knight the highest GS player?
Also I won against Pyrdacor, got 4873 points. His current GS (see in details) 2621, so it seems possible to change into naked gear to prevent others getting good points against youâŚ
The pairing is better than was before (if I cannot defeat the highiest option, it is still a problem for advancement), but the pairing algorithm is still a mystery for me. @jeto So many questions. Can you enlighten us?
Thatâs because neither is being used as matching criteria. As Jeto said, the matching criteria is based on âperceived strengthâ, which has been a closely held trade secret by the devs to date.
Perceived strength is more than just oneâs gear score. The calculation is at a minimum factoring in citadel perks and is also likely factoring gear attributes among other unknown factors. These additional factors, IMO, have more value in the perceived strength calculation than gear score alone.
The current matchmaking system will sometimes make a player ineligible to appear if you have fought them too many times in a given amount of time. Theyâll reappear in a day or two, most likely.
So⌠in a weird coincidence for this thread, Ailile being cited here raises some eyebrows. Not that thereâs anything wrong with citing her at all, but rather that sheâs my better half and as such Iâm very qualified to talk about her paladin (with her permission of course, which I do have).
What you are seeing here is the perceived strength calculation. Ailile wears M45 gear, excepting M50 weapon and shield. She could be stronger if she wanted to be, but she is actively choosing to not improve her gear any further in the current state of the game. However, she has ~200 citadel levels under belt, which is overcoming the gear score discrepancy and resulting in the game reporting her as the stronger character from various citadel perks.
Also, it sounds like you lost against her five times? If so, then that is probably the result of the Fallen Shoulders. It may have been on the receiving end of the nerf bat this week, but it is still easily powerful enough to create invulnerability situations in PvP especially as the shoulders can activate as many as five times in a single combat round. Itâs a very frustrating situation, especially if playing with a character thatâs not their main character in PvP.
This was a loophole that was closed off awhile back. The game only remembers the higher perceived strength loadout that was used in a PvP battle to block players from switching loadouts or stripping naked to tank their PvP matchmaking scores.
Thatâs because the current system only allows for a single score against your top 10 opponents. Once you register a score that qualifies as one of your top 10 scores, they are disqualified from appearing again as an opponent for the rest of the week. So, for ranking purposes, only the first wins against those 10 battles make a difference all week and once those are played, thatâs it. AS OuttaTime, in the post above clearly points out, itâs a flawed matchmaking system.
This sounds like the scoring formula is going to change again in 2.4, but if the matchmaking system issues arenât corrected by them, those changes arenât going to mean much at all.
In another thread I have asked about citadel strenght. It would be very useful if displayed on the PVP matching screen.
Please give my regards to Ailile. I have only lvl 142, so that explains that beatings. If there is a pause after too much encounter with the same person, perhaps we well meet again. (I have âalmostâ won a few times, so I donât give up hope.)
There are opponents, who were in my best 10 early this week, but then lost that position. They came back, but the current ones cannot⌠So a perfectionist must abort a weak win in hope of a better one. I believed the original post meant âtop scoreâ as in perfect win.
One good thing about this, it works for everyone this way. As I have no ambition or means to became top 10, I am content that it is as hard to beat me from my current position as for me to advance further.
Im frustrated that i keep getting the same people in my pool of opponents. Ive beaten âIts Shaunâ 8 times and they still appear in my pool EVERY time
Is he in the highest spot? My current highest is too low to give points, but I have points from the perceived top ten, so I am in the position where I cannot advance any moreâŚ
I WAS#3, but now Iâm #4 and âIts Shaunâ is #3. They have 31 more points than me, LOL. But its impossible for me to get anymore points because âIts Shaunâ is always the highest opponent in my pool. What sucks is that this was the case even before âIts Shaunâ pulled ahead of me.
Hi, Itâs me (Shaun). I was also getting a very similar pool of opponents for the last 2 days none of which could help me improve my score (N.B. I wasnât always paying 100% attention so I could be wrong) I was choosing easier opponents to make the battle faster to collect my honor, but 2/3 of the way through todayâs PVP I suddenly got 3 opponents in a row that gave me a chance to improve my score. Surprise!
Due to reflected damage or reflect or something else I only had one that actually improved my score and went in to #8 of my top 10. The 3rd one killed me with reflect that I didnât notice them having.
The above is an FYI for my last 2 days in the open challenger league.
The more I think about this, the only way this situation can be band-aided until the 2.4 scoring changes arrive is for players to be allowed to fight a mirror match against themselves.
How hard would this be to implement, to allow the player to be in the pool of valid of PvP targets for themselves?
Also, this would be a great thing to implement as a future QoL for testing PvP defense builds.
I also noticed this too. The only time id start to getnopponents that could improve my score would be when @shmaunpq pulled ahead of me a little bit, haha. However, what sucked is that the new opponents (who could increase my score) often had reflect, so it was impossible to get an actual good score. Also, these players almost exclusively were the ones that could stun me.
Reflect is getting annoying, most people seem to be running it. Not uncommon to have all 3 of your opponent in a round pick have it equipped. I think the easiest way to fix Reflect for tournies is to have it not trigger on the dying blow. Just kind of silly to have a mechanic that there is no actual counter for, so not having it trigger on the dying blow would allow you to at least strategize and work around it.
I agree! This is probably the best way. The funniest thing is that no matter whether (1) reflect kills you when you kill the opponent OR (2) reflect kills the opponent when they kill you, YOU end up losing either way, LOL.
Does reflect reflect both skull and mana damage? Or only skull?
I normally lean towards the player argument on things, but in this case I think reflect, while annoying, is working properly.
In case 1: You do enough damage to kill the opponent, but also enough to kill you.
You are dead at the end of the fight, so you should get a defeat.
In case 2: Your enemy does enough damage to kill you, but your reflect also kills them.
Again, you are dead at the end of the fight, so you should get a defeat.
Reflect, the status effect, reflects any type of damage once, and then goes away.
Reflect from Warlord shoulders only reflects melee, so spell and ranged damage should not be reflected.
What usually happens for me is case 3 - I kill the opponent and I take a tiny bit of damage. I still win the match, but losing health hurts my score. Is there even really a way to circumvent this? Thatâs my biggest issue with it, and its like every match now practically.
One strange situationâŚ
I have an opponent twice in my top ten list.
Is it normal? I believed earlier that it is not possible. Maybe it is, because the lost battle was the earlier one. But once I defeated him, he will not turn up again.
Another (Playstation) user here frustrated by the PVP system. I can flawlessly beat every opponent yet I am unable to climb any higher than 3rd place due to being repeatedly and consecutively matched against the same opponents that do nothing to increase my score.
I have only lvl 142, so that explains that beatings. If there is a pause after too much encounter with the same person, perhaps we well meet again. (I have âalmostâ won a few times, so I donât give up hope.)
