@Jeto , Since you yourself has mentioned that there isn’t a “Class” spell book, please confirm that the following is what you meant.
If I have a unique Assassin Night Blade spell at Mythic now, after 2.5, the resources of that Mythic spell will get applied to my Assassin hero, right ?
Also, I shall get 10 glyphs refunded if the spell is at 50, right ?
Assuming this is the only way to get Pages for those spells (currently they don’t appear in chests or in caches), here you have a table with how many coins you would need to evolve these spells. I have added how much time would be needed taking into account the 30 ancient coins we can get daily:
| Rarity | Pages per evolution | Total pages | Total ancient coins | Time |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Common+ | 3 | 3 | 120 | 4 days |
| Uncommon | 6 | 9 | 360 | 12 days |
| Uncommon+ | 10 | 19 | 760 | 25 days |
| Rare | 30 | 49 | 1960 | 1 month |
| Rare+ | 50 | 99 | 3960 | 4.5 months |
| Epic | 150 | 249 | 9960 | 11 months |
| Epic+ | 300 | 549 | 21960 | 2 years |
| Legendary | 700 | 1249 | 49960 | 4.6 years |
| Legendary+ | 1000 | 2249 | 89960 | 8.2 years |
| Mythic | 2000 | 4249 | 169960 | 15.5 years |
| Mythic+ | 3000 | 7249 | 289960 | 26.5 years |
| Ancient Mythic | 4000 | 11249 | 449960 | 41 years |
I believe I don’t need to go into details to explain why I think this is just crazy.
Unless you give another reasonable way to get pages for these spells, they won’t be difficult to evolve anymore… But impossible. So you could as well save the effort to make them.
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Same as above. And I’m also curious about drop rate and craft rate of pages.
Not like to see a terrible drop rate, which means we have to spend decades to raise just 1 rank of rarity. It’s ridiculous.
EDIT: Please provide some forms of expected value. e.g. when spell page occupied 1 loot slot, how many pages is expected to drop?
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Here are my thoughts on what I have understood until now.
Things I am happy with:
- Spell glyphs are no longer needed to evolve individual spells but for leveling up all spells at once. This is great news, one of the main problems of spells was that you could only evolve/level up a few spells to high rarity/level due to the non-farmable resources needed for them. Now, evolving a spell seems to only require farmable resources and the spell glyphs level up all your spells at once.
- Mythic relics are no longer needed for spells. These are hard to get so it is great not to need them for spells anymore.
- We will be getting useful resources instead of spell duplicates that had nearly no value at all.
Things I am not sure about:
- Spell page drop rate. This will be key to fulfill your goal of making evolving spells easier… Or on the contrary, make it harder. So I hope you have given lot’s of thought into this, player satisfaction level with the update will depend heavily on it.
- Evolving a spell now requires specific resources. Even if we no longer will need high level resources such as glyphs and mythic relics, we will only be able to evolve spells if we have their own specific spell pages. Depending on the spell page drop rates this will mean that it will be necessary to farm specifically for them. Therefore, even if evolving spells to high rarity will be theoretically easier, evolving them from low rarity could be harder.
- The new system requires more scrolls for evolving a single spell. The issue of needing scrolls for both minions and spells may become even more acute this way.
- Specific spellbook per hero (with a too high cost to max). Currently the system promotes playing with all different classes. Once you get them to lvl 50 you can change class without real drawbacks. 2.5, however, will create a meaningful difference between classes (spellbook level). Taking into account the linearity issue raised by @Lyrian the differences between a lvl 34 and lvl 44 spellbook may not be too high, but it will surely discourage some players from playing with any class other than their main one.
- The spell glyph cost still seems too big. Currently, maxing 4 spells requires 64 spell glyphs, which is just crazy. 2.5 update seems to require a similar amount to max 1 hero’s spellbook. This is partly a bit better, since it increases all spell level for that hero. However, it won’t increase rarity anymore, it will only work for 1 hero and it is still a truly unreasonable amount for one of the highest costing glyphs. Going from insanely costly to a-bit-less-but-still-too-costly doesn’t change much.
Thing I am not happy about:
- Evolving seasonal spells only available in the rewards tab will be impossible (see my previous post). This is a big one.
- Compensation. It has made clear that we will get no spell glyphs from our lvl 45 spells. However, spell glyphs are needed to level up spellbooks past lvl 35, which I understand will be the equivalent to current individual spell level. Therefore, even if the rarity of our spells remain the same, the “level” of the spells above 35 will be lowered down. This is another big one.
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I will go a bit more into detail with the compensation issue, because it is the main reason I am quite disappointed with the 2.5 spell rework system in general. In my case, I have leveled up 1 lvl 50 spell, 4 mythic lvl 45 spells and 10 legendary lvl 45 spells. That means I have spent 60 spell glyphs and 20 mythic relics to get 6 different builds for 3 different heroes with all spells at least at lvl 45.
However, once the update comes, I will only get 10 spell glyphs returned and all my spells will go down to level 1 (the spellbook level). I guess that leveling up the spellbooks will be fairly easy up to lvl 34-35, either directly by the refunding of the resorces from class specific spells or just manually pouring shards and gold into it. However, once I reach lvl 34-35 I will need spell glyphs to keep going. Therefore:
- All my spells will be at least at level 35. Nice, I don’t use most of them, but it is ok.
- All my previously lvl +35 spells will also be at level 35. WHAT?! Oh, wait, I can use those 10 spell glyphs refunded to get 1 hero spell book to… Lvl 42? So you are saying that after all the effort and resources spent I am going to get my main spells downgraded to lvl 42 for my main hero and lvl 34-35 for the rest?! Seriously?
Also, you compare the number of spell glyphs needed to upgrade 1 hero spellbook to lvl 50 with the current cost of upgrading 4 spells to lvl 50. Sure, understandable. But… I had already invested half of that amount of spell glyphs (34) to max my main build’s spells. Are you telling me that I will only get 10 of those backs, so that I have to start over from level 42 or so?
The spell rework system itself seems interesting and potentially better, but… If the compensation really means that we will be losing on spell level then it will be the first update since I started playing 1 year ago that I will be clearly unhappy with.
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No it will be not better, even not potentially, cause actually you could at least use that high leveled and hard works result spells with all your heroes (if it was a common spell), now you will have to do it for every single hero again … for every single spell.
This is not only a small increase in costs, this is a massive one.
And it will not at all solve the problem Dev wanted to solve … or better, tells us they did wanted to solve.
It will make it much worse.
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This is the one thing that has been on my mind which I have been considering posting about. (and lots of stuff I don’t really understand yet 
) Given the massive amount of glyphs to get a hero’s spellbook to level 50 you can realistically only get one hero with the highest level spells.
This leveling may not be such an issue as often the rarity is the more important aspect of a spell, but it feels bad to only be able to level 1 characters spellbook to a high level. (I currently play with 3 main heros)
I have 2x spells at level 50 so will be due 20 glyphs as a refund and 2x in my inventory currently = 22 glyphs. Also 3x more mythic spells and 19x legendary for which I won’t get the evolution materials back. This gets one character to a level 43 spellbook or 3 heros to a level 40 spell book. I know this gives long term players something new to do but I hope having lower level spells for some heros doesn’t hurt the gameplay or affect the attractiveness to play other classes.
I think you got it a bit wrong. Here is my understanding of the spellbook levels and the transitioning.
2.4 Level 50 hero => 2.5 Level 50 Spellbook, even if all class spells are at level 1
2.4 Level 20 hero, with class spell at level 50 => 2.5 Level 50 Spellbook (still getting the glyphs for the levels after 45 of that spell).
2.4 Level 20 hero, with highest class level spell at level less than 20 => 2.5 Level 20 Spellbook
2.4 no hero => 2.5 new hero Level 1 Spellbook
All my heroes are at level 50, so if my understanding is correct, then I am not worried about their spellbook level. This is actually much better because all of my class spells will be at level 50, even if they were at level 1 before.
Edit: all of the above is wrong as pointed out by Higure.
What I will aim to do before the update - increase the rarity of my spells as much as I can. I had 100 000 spell shards, and I believe it will be easier to spend them, than to farm for dust and pages after the update.
Jeto. Another thought. Any chance of picking a random spell or two or three! and showing us the stats at multiple different levels and rarities? Might help us get our heads around some of the changes.
Either screenshots or a table. Whichever is easier/faster for you, but I have a feeling a table will be more informative for us.
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It would be so great if it worked like you said. But I don’t understand like that. Let’s look at the notes:
I believe your assumption comes from this. But be careful, it says “capped”, meaning you won’t be able to go higher than your Hero’s level or highest level hero class spell. But for the actual level your spellbook will have we have to go to the following:
According to this, the level of your spellbook will only take into account the resources spent on leveling up your current spells (only leveling up, not evolving rarity). Any spell up to lvl 45 will only give gold and shards as level up resources, so you won’t be able to get your spellbook past the level when spell glyphs are required (lvl 35 I believe and hope). Only if you have +45 level spells you will get spell glyphs from them, and only 2 glyphs from level. So a lvl 50 spell would give 10 spell glyphs, enough for getting the spellbook up to around lvl 42 I guess.
I hope Jeto comes and tells me it is as you said, and then everything I said in the previous post would mean nothing and I would be happy again… But sadly I am pretty sure about my own interpretation of the notes.
That would be great. All my analysis comes from the assumption that a current spell at a given rarity and level after 2.5 will do exactly the same at the same rarity and spellbook level.
However, after 2.5 there will be more rarities, so epic will go from the 4th rarity step to the 7th, legendary from 5th to the 9th… This means that a post 2.5 mythic spell will have a higher effect than a current one?
Being able to compare some current spell effects with the effect for the 2.5 spell at equivalent rarity and spellbook level would help a lot understanding the impact of the changes and compensation.
Truly a sh!t-show! I for one am not surprised at the turmoil being caused, previously in beta similar changes were made and caused similar waves by not compensating correctly/honestly for changes made that suit new users but not the advanced player base. Ugh!
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I find I am very frustrated that the spell glyphs used to level the non-class spells will not be refunded nor applied to any of the spell books. I invested in several non-class specific spells so that I could share them across all of my heroes and the spells would carry with them the mastery levels, not just their evolution.
When the change to spells was first announced, I expected a main spell book to be shared across all of the heroes, and then level adjusted for each of them. In this way any purchases or glyphs earned feel impactful across the entire account. With a spell book for each hero, you’re handcuffing our flexibility.
Now that you are making each hero have it’s own spell book, you need to massively increase the number of spell glyphs available. As players play through the story, they should earn enough spell glyphs from the story to level each classes spell book to 45 just by playing through the story. Those of us who have classes that have already completed the story with a class should have the spell books set right to level 45. Now using the highest class spells to set the spell book level means those of us that choose to level non-class spells to allow us flexibility in playing multiple classes are further limited by us now having to try and scramble to level a class specific spell that we may normally not choose to play with.
Another item I saw was that spell books will not be tied to a class, but to each hero. With the limited number of loadout slots, many people are leveling seconds of classes they enjoy so they can have more quick configuration options. If an account has multiple heroes of a class will the conversion of all spell books have the highest class spell applied to all spell books?
I’ve been playing the Puzzle Quest series since the original game. I played Gems of War from the launch on Android until around a year ago. So I’ve seen many balancing changes. I know you will need to adjust this for the better. We were told the spell book changes would give us more flexibility, and now we are given less flexibility to play multiple classes and getting locked into a main hero.
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You are correct about where my assumption is coming from, and you are also correct that it is wrong. I took a closer look at the comments again and realized that I misread the screenshot of her 50 lvl Necromancer. I thought the spellbook is at level 50 and took it as confirmation of my assumption, but I see it is actually at level 45.
Thank you for pointing out the little details. Now I start to get worried. 
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Sigh, you made me have a little bit of hope there… 
About this I completely agree for spells up to epic rarity, it seems it will be easier to get them to that rarity currently than after 2.5 update. For higher rarities it depends on the type of player. Players that farm a lot will probably benefit from waiting until 2.5 update to evolve spells to legendary and higher since you no longer will need glyphs and relics. Players that play only a little every day and rely more on the slow but steady gaining of resources over time will probably have it worse, so they may be better trying to evolve their main spells to legendary and/or mythic too before 2.5. But then they won’t have glyphs to level up their spellbook… Sigh.
So if my Merc is level 50, but my Find Weakness etc. is level 35, I only get a level 35 spellbook?
Judging by this, would be 50 I think.
What really annoys me so much is that all the updates seem to have one goal: restricting a player to a single character.
With 2.4, it is already annoying to move away from a class if you lose interest: I tried changing from the Paladin (which I once really liked and which is now quite annoying for me). To do this, I first played multiple Classes to 50 (while farming lvl 100 dungeons and kingdom defenses for resources with the Paladin) and finally found myself choosing between either the {Assassin + Warlock} (purple pair) or {Shaman + Mercenary} (green pair). As I do not like restricting myself to one class and investing fully into it, the idea was to compromise a bit, reuse multiple equipment parts (armor / weapon / jewelry) and - is possible - share a spell to reduce the ridiculous amount of Glyphs you need. While this decreased the full potential a bit, it at least promised some variety to keep the fun in the game.
After investing some month into the final pair, I leveled most of their items stuff to the “mythical barrier”, spending Glyphs on Equipment and keeping several of the spells at lvl 35 - waiting for the long-promised spell rework. Reading this and doing the math, it is obvious that for multi-class players, the game is - once more - getting worse:
- With the current equipment for the new characters, I am still not able to compete with kindgom defense lvl 86+ or play lvl 100 dungones consistently
- Thus, I still require the Paladin
- The Paladin seems to get the “no-spell-glyphs-level” Spellbook and I will most likely have to invest into the Paladin spells, so I can gather more resources for the new classes (even though I do not like the class anymore)
- While I was really happy sharing items / spells on two classes to get more variety, I will need to pour Glyphs into two distinct Spellbooks, which means that the Glyphs cost required are insane for multi-classing …
So, bottom line:
- The current PvP system punishes moving from one class to a new class: you still get matched based on the previous main’s league / placement regardless of your real potential
- The new 2.5 spellbook punishes playing multiple classes instead of making this more available
→ any alternative character is just crippling your overall standing / experience.
PS: and playing coop is still at its most frustrating level, as even the out-of-sync errors from early access created a better user experience than the artificial between-turn-delays we see today - and there is still no reward at all playing this mode 
PPS: the next logical step is to introduce “bind-on-equip” for items 
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Agree, and if the game classes would be in any way balanced well, no prob at all … but now even more ppl will only play dark characters, cause nothing else will make much sense … if you want a competitive class and char
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So I’m wondering if the Citadel critical hit and damage bonuses apply to spell critical hit and damage bonuses? Same with gear like guard gloves and set bonuses and abilities that raise critical damage like cleave?