The only reason I can think of why they would remove the upgrade track for gear and rely on RNG is to remove “easy” access to meta builds for whatever reason they’ve come up with.
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I think its the opposite actually, finding mythics and legendaries in chests means you’ll see more variety than ever before.
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I disagree completely. I believe you are simply wrong on this point.
The variety hasn’t changed!!!
I saw all gear types drop before 3.0. Collected many of them and leveled them up to epic and legendary.
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No, I think that once again you are mistaking end game play for the normative experience
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With your desired mythic gear in hand, perhaps you ignored all other gear before, and only now deign to notice it because occasionally an end-game version appears.
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But pre-end gamers were already seeing and trying out various gear pieces at lower levels before 3.0.
Because, unlike you, they were perfectly happy to notice and experiment with that lower-level gear and then to upgrade the pieces they decided they liked towards mythic.
In fact, that used to be the focus and fun – and the psychologically rewarding – core of mid-game play.
It’s what got new customers more engaged and invested into the game as they worked to join end-gamer ranks.
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Remember too – as apparently has to be repeated over and over – non-end-gamers can’t get good chests quickly
Maybe you are autofarming dozens of level 100 chests a day, and so seeing a handful of legendary and mythic pieces you’re willing to try out.
Pre-end gamers have to spend a lot more time getting good chests – many can’t even win level 90 or 100 battles – and so they are not seeing those high-end drops.
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So, no, there is not more variety now. Just nicer drops for end-gamers.
And, because gear can no longer be upgraded to mythic, those lower-level drops that everyone else is getting are now much less interesting, useful, or rewarding for them than they used to be.
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Sure, maybe I’ll try out a new epic that drops and decide I like it. I could already - and did - do that before 3.0
The difference is that now, once I’ve got that piece, I’m no closer to getting a good version of it than before.
Instead, I just have one more reason to be discouraged when I get useless drops from chests, drops that get me no closer - not even by salvaging the crap - to my goals.
8 Likes
I come from the camp of “a middle-end player” who had been playing for months and have been VERY frustrated with the path to developing a higher end weapon/mythics in general.
I had basically quit before this drop, I was doing my dailies and keeping up my totals to not lose out on my kingdom. I had hardly engaged in the spell rework, I could not hit dragon, I was met with SO much frustrating and it was like a kick in the teeth. I was barely getting through level 6 dungeons. I had a path of gear, and it was all legendary (and one mythic ring) but it wasnt really clicking. I was not trying everything that came down, because you run out of runes and relics to just experiment with more stuff.
I made some slight tweaks (and actually finished out the Merc class) and I found a little joy in the old system. I still couldn’t kill the dragon, but my dungeons got a bit better and I found a bit of a groove to fall into.
Cue to the release. I started with a 45/45/50 scroll (since I had a level 50 mythic ring). I had made 1 pair of pants a mythic before the launch so I started with two mythics in the new system. Luckily I had some Weapon glyphs I had never used before because I couldn’t get relics, so I leveled up my weapon scroll to 47. And I got to playing.
I found that just by playing the same old dungeons I would get “new” things. New spells, new items. Heck the first night I was playing I even got lucky and got a Mythic (a night cloak, which honestly I had no real thought of what to do with it). I just plugged away at it. This is a true numbers game. I got a mythic belt that happened to match my weapon so I added it to my build, and it made me curious to try a level 100 dungeon.
I did clear that dungeon so it will allow me to use those tickets in order to clear them if I want to autoclear it. Now - if I am trying to get myself chests to fill, I am going to go ahead and do auto (if I have time to play) on easier dungeons. I don’t have the time or desire to play hardcore every time, sometimes I just want to fill the chest slots and be on my way. I have gotten mythics from a level 45 chest (ruby) which do benefit the younger player.
This new system is a numbers game. It is a “open every chest as often and as quickly as you can”. Hope for some mythics, but the chance is slim. The legendary are also a great tool in the belt, and can be swapped in and out for different modes as needed. The old set that you liked running still hits fine, and if you are engaged in the PVE things its probably going to serve you ok until you can add in that one more piece to take you over the top. If you were playing this game for the PVP experience only, then yes your mileage may vary and you might be having a much worse time.
The stuff that does not work in this release is the number of keys you need to do that quickly and efficiently OR the ability to have food to work through those chests. When your chests dont have food in them you get stuck. The very low amount of keys you can buy a day dont make a dent in what you need to open if you did want to move forward. I get they are sold for real cash, but this That really needs to be addressed, in order to keep people in the loot box lottery system. Glyphs are also a VERY big problem, and need to be addressed ASAP, or communication needs to be put in place that the expectation is that you are not going to grind out every character, every scroll. That or say “this is the roadwork for what we see the followers/minons evolving into”.
TL;DR
*your old gear probably works exactly as it always did, and you might get one piece in the new system that helps you move forward
*Its not that bad, its a numbers game. Try lower difficulty chests and open more - you might be surprised with your results
*fix the number of keys we can buy with gold, don’t artificially hinder our progress behind a “keys should be rare” argument.
*if you wont increase keys available for gold, increase food that we get
*fix glyphs and the number of them out there - especially if you expect newer players to play all classes
*give some glimpses into what Minors or Followers will evolve into. The theorizing of what “could be” is not great.
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TL;DR+1
*If you invested glyphs to get more than one Lvl 50 Mythic in a scroll group, all those extra glyphs were vaporized by this update… Lots of wasted high-value resources.
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I mean it probably would have made better sense if a Mythic at 50 in the old build was a higher mythic in the new build. I could see that maybe easing some of the bad feelings. I will be the first to say that the old system was a lot of work, and it wasnt particularly fun to try for.
I also will say that I wouldnt be upset if a new player had an easier route to getting good weapons and doing good damage and having fun with builds. Making numbers go brrrrr is so satisfying.
I think glyphs need to be amped way up and/or drastically reduced in cost. Hopefully that is being considered.
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I found the chief reason for slow development before was needing glyphs to get past legendary 45. Shifting glyph cost to another track addressed that.
Meanwhile, the fun and rewarding part of pre-3.0 was trying out different builds at lower level, deciding what you liked, and upgrading it.
By needlessly taking away that ability, 3.0 has gutted what I and many found rewarding, and replaced the guarantee of progress with frustrating, tedious, and unappealing randomness.
They didn’t need to do that. Shifting away glyph costs to another track took the brakes off gear development … Making it all dependent on random drops put the brakes back on, even harder, and made the process - because no longer ‘controlled’ or guaranteed - far more frustrating and discouraging to boot.
They threw out the baby with the bath water.
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Don’t hold your breath for that. Pretty sure the point of those glyphs is the cash grab - force people to buy them.
Thing is, I think that was ill considered too.
Before, a handful of glyphs was needed to upgrade an item of gear. That’s what slowed down development - but it also meant buying a few glyphs got immediate and noticable returns, as that item upgraded significantly, and for all heroes.
Now, with scrolls, glyph effects are much less pronounced. Sure, they affect all gear, but it takes a lot more of them to see significant changes.
All my battle scrolls are at level 45 yet I still need 120 glyphs to get to 50!!! That’s completely disheartening, and gives me no incentive to buy a few here or there, as the return on investment will be so minimal.
Worse yet, thats cost per hero. That makes it hideously expensive. Before, your glyphs spent on gear helped all heros. Now glyphs spent on scrolls do not.
I expect this will prevent players from spending tine or resources - or money - developing more than one hero very far now, which just further reduces incentive to drop $ on the game.
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I’m not sure what the real intentions behind 3.0 gear changes were, but if it was to engage players more or to encourage more spending, I think it will have the opposite effect of what was intended.
I do think it will be a net positive for end-gamers who already had a fair bit of mythic gear and scrolls all at or near 50 … but at a great cost to the rest of the customer base.
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Returning the ability to advance gear from common to mythic (e.g. by spending aether to convert fully honed gear up to the next quality level), while retaining the other 3.0 changes, would go a long way to restoring encouragement and enjoyment to mid-game players. And, thus, providing more incentives for microtransactions.
It’s the pointless loss of this ability, more than any other change, that seems to be driving away and alienating so many players.
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You can still try out all kinds of builds. It drops at different rarities, and you dont have to invest the runes to try and see its evolved form. If you like it, you farm that dungeon and you have a chance for a mythic without having to waste all the time and resources of grinding and hoping for a relic. A mythic for me has come around probably about every 75-100 chests (of whatever rarity, and a variety of levels). Thats a whole lot better payout then the old system.
The cost per hero is out of control without adjusting Glyphs and their costs. One can just hope that will be addressed with the Follower update coming in the future.
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A vanishingly low chance. Especially if you’re a pre-end-gamer or casual player and you cant do dozens of higher end chests a day, because it takes you too long to get them.
I’ve done several hundred chests since 3.0, half of them or more level 100, half of those diamond or ruby. I’ve gotten NO mythics, 3 legendaries (2 of such poor stats that my existing gear - one epic, one leg., were better … and one of a piece I have no use for or interest in), a handful of epics (none useful or an improvement), and then lower-level crap. That’s it.
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Regardless, we’re moving away from the key points:
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The psychology of 3.0 for non-end-gamers is terrible. Before, even if your progress was slow, it was steady. With each battle’s rewards, even if just shards, you could feel a little closer to upgrading the gear you’d tried out and decided you wanted. … Now it’s an overwhelmingly negative experience. Sure, if you get that lucky drop - be it tomorrow or (more likely) next year - it’s great, but until then it’s just discouragement and frustration. Bad psychology for customer enjoyment and retention.
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The main hold-up in getting mythic gear before was the glyph requirement - one glyph to get past 35, lots more to get past 45. It was relatively easy, even for low-level players, to get gear up to 35. … Well, moving glyphs to scrolls solved that issue. Had everything else remained untouched, I’ve no doubt it’d be far quicker to get a particular gear piece up to mythic using the old system than it is now under the just-grind-away-at-the-depressing-slot-machine of the new system.
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There was NO REASON for 3.0 to remove the ability to improve gear from common to mythic. Keeping in that ability is completely compatible with the new system – just add a final honing step where you spend aether to improve an item’s quality level … NO REASON not to have the best of both worlds: the guarantee of gradually improving specific gear you know you want, plus the exciting (albeit very rare) drop of some nice random item which (possibly) might be of interest to you. (Not that I’ve seen it, but I hear it happens.)
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I’m not suggesting 3.0 was all bad, or should be rolled back. (I know some think that.)
I’m simply saying that taking out that improve-gear-to-mythic ability was a terrible decision all around and that capacity should be returned ASAP.
And – while obviously I’ve been the most vocal about this on the forums – it’s clear from likes, from other posts, and from comments in in-game chat that this is a common and representative reaction, especially among pre-end-game players.
And is the reason that quite a few customers – some of them long-time players, even end-gamers, and active in the community (we miss you Shark!) – have quit or are considering doing so if that gear-upgrading capacity isn’t returned.
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For me, and other folks mileage may vary but the holdup was not Glyphs but relics. I had gone a solid few months with absolutely no increase in power. I was tired, frustrated and annoyed. Those 4 relics that wouldnt drop for any set at all basically had me considering putting away my boots for good. And then at that I would have had to have a full set of Relics x4 for every single piece? That mountain was far too high of one to climb, and not one I was willing to invest in (time or money).
This system, while not perfect made it to where my legendary set with a handful (2)l of mythics and a not maxed out scroll could do solid damage on a dragon. I get to participate in KD and sometimes even get the damage prize. Overall its a feel good for me (and a handful of others).
Its unfortunate that you have not gotten any Mythics or a bunch of legendaries. I would really say back down to just a reasonable (fun) dungeon size you can do on auto to fill your chest and use the autoclears on level 10 dungeons after people have pulled you through them. That is where I have found more success. Ive gotten maybe 5 mythics out of probably 600 chests (since I have 460 Aether that sounds reasonable) and not all of those have been 100. I realize as well thats a pretty large number, but I use a ton of autoclear tickets and had a large glut of keys.
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I’ve already got all dungeons cleared at X. I did that a while ago. Most of my 100 chests are from loot tickets. It’s no longer worth my effort to actively fight battles - I only do autoplay now.
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Again, I agree the old system had its problems and frustrations.
But being able to selectively upgrade chosen gear was not one of those problems. To the contrary, it was the fun and rewarding part.
Taking that away - to be replaced by the constant frustration and disappointment and sense of helplessness that being dependent on random drops causes - was a very poor design choice.
Taking that away doesn’t contribute to solving the existing problems.
Rather, it causes new ones.
It wasn’t necessary.
And has it has robbed many customers, especially mid-game players, of what they enjoyed and found encouraging: what made them feel invested in the game.
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Is there any use for these materials if you’re already maxed out? Will they be used to craft things in a future update?
I’ve been enjoying the gear re-work and have picked up another four or five mythics since the rework. I feel this is faster than I would have accumulated them otherwise.
That being said I’m not a long-term user having only grabbed this game when it came out on Xbox and thought I’d have a break from Destiny. While starting fresh was still in my mind I thought I’d jump on a second account and see how it was starting afresh. In one night I’ve got a character to level 6, have almost a full set of armour (just need a second ring), have 5 bits of green armour and have just had my first blue drop. The gear scrolls are each at level six.
Thoughts:
The progression is definitely faster than previously even allowing for I know more about what I’m doing. This is is a large part because it seems much more intuitive. Level up character, as you do level up scrolls, as you level up you get better gear drops, replace lower level gear. I have died much, much less.
At this point, as it was first time round, matching sets isn’t really an issue. You just want a full set of gear and it doesn’t really matter too much what it is. You’re just starting to hit rune bottlenecks for upgrading but again isn’t too much of a problem because you still have some low level gear to replace that will make much more of a difference.
I’m going to keep going up to 50 but so far I do think the changes enable more coherent gameplay and better levelling up. I don’t mind the rng - been playing with that in games since the 80’s.
I’ll share more thoughts at about level 15 and level 35.
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As soon as glyphs come into it, you’re boned. To get your armour scroll to L50 you need 96 armour glyphs PER HERO. It’s mental.
The scroll system is better than it’s predecessor, but the costs are way too high. If it was 1 glyph per level, per hero, that would be an acceptable cost.
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I also started a new account and up to lvl 40 I agree that the progression seems even easier than with the previous system. The only issue I have seen is that doing story with different classes to get extra resources is much worse now due to Battle scrolls being character dependent.
The problems probably come at midgame, when you can only focus on a single class due to the glyph requirement above lvl 35 book and scrolls, and when you start wanting a custom build. It may be true that right now a fully honed custom legendary build is enough to clear anything in the game, and not so difficult to get. However, if you cannot really go for a full mythic custom build without having to depend on the RNG lottery the path of the endgame becomes pretty boring.
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I’ve still been getting common/uncommon in all types of L100 chests.
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I think they reduced it to 0% for just ruby or diamond, but I feel like I have seen it some as well.
I’ve definitely seen common minions in level-100 ruby and diamond chests. Not sure about gear.
I’ve definitely gotten common gear in some ruby & diamond chests, but because you can’t tell chests’ level if a minion has already “completed” them when you open them, not sure what level those chests were.
Getting 0% is only for Gear and for lvl 100 Ruby and Diamond chests.
If you are getting common/uncommon gear in ruby and diamond lvl 100 chests, take some screenshots of when it happens and post them here so that the devs know something is wrong.
3 Likes
Does that just apply for Dungeon or all chest types?