Why do the Developers hate Highly Active Kingdoms at Maximum Capacity?

This needs to be put into a gold frame and hung in the dev offices! The limits are truly nonsensical. If they exist for some game economy reason, then put the limits on the individual PLAYERS.


Made me chuckle :slight_smile:


That is the exact same conclusion that I came to. If, for some reason, they want to limit how many food purchases can be made, doing so with a flat 30 per Kingdom is probably the absolute worst way it could possibly be implemented from a user experience perspective. Unless they also coupled it with Kingdom management tools that allowed purchase rationing… but at that point, you’re getting back to per person limits anyways. So just implement it that way from the start if needed. I don’t think it is needed at all though. Food purchases ARE ALREADY LIMITED by Food availability itself, which is limited both by how much is possible to earn hourly and with a maximum storage capacity.


The Kingdom issue is mainly a byproduct of neglect. They have adjusted elements of the economy and gameplay but entirely ignored adjustments or improvements to Kingdoms along the way. Literally nothing has been done to change the structure of rewards for Kingdoms since early access launch while numerous changes have occurred to the economy and the levels of the player base.

I agree that one solution would be to take off the top cap of kingdom buys from Bazaars. The limit should exist based on the economic income (ore earned through play/miner, not arbitrary cap limits compressed against a 30-member kingdom)


0.37 Update … Relief for kingdoms?

Nope. Nothing. Nada.

Also, now that Evolutions are even more of a possibility, the Ore Deal is in even higher demand and there’s not enough to go around for all interested members creating a situation that is even worse than before 0.37.

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Really hoping for something in the 0.38 update to improve quality of life (QoL) for active kingdoms. There is very little enthusiasm at this point amongst players about kingdom benefits due to absolute neglect. Player longevity in Gems of War and similar games owes a lot to the beneficial kingdom benefits based on total contributions by all members and a sense of camaraderie over goals like events and Guild Wars.

Maybe some positive changes are just around the corner? Let me check in on the most recent updates from our neighborhood community voices:

I did a keyword search for “kingdom”. No dice!

The design is clearly wrong when the most competitive PVP action in the game is trying to spend food in the minute past reset. If you live in a time zone where reset falls while you are asleep don’t expect to ever get a food deal in even a mildly active kingdom.

That highly active kingdoms seriously consider breaking off into small kingdoms just to be able to make use of their resources, and that has been the case for months now is really bad.

Really hoping they have some major updates for kingdoms to encourage more active play within them and do it sooner rather than later.

Nearly two months since I posted this and 30 member kingdoms with active players continue to be harmed daily due to Food Deal and Ore Deal being capped limiting availability to members. The economics are so disfavorable to full kingdoms right now it’s especially discouraging, especially since there has been virtually no acknowledgement of the issue at all.

Maybe there are changes forthcoming but in the absence of any communication whatsoever it leaves many players to question whether its worth continuing.



So, no changes to kingdom structure, administration, rewards, or anything else in this update. Although I’m not surprised, it’s extremely disappointing. But that’s not even the worse part. This update now makes the Food Deal one of the most rewarding passive activities in the game and as I’ve discussed previously, full kingdoms with active players are essentially losing out on benefits enjoyed by smaller kingdoms every day because there’s simply not enough inventory for all.

Take a look at this table (using Tier X Mark Loot chance probabilities):

If a player does the Daily Siege and the Daily Dungeon with no gem spend, their expected Ruby Marks to be earned is ~60/week. If they invest in the first Dungeon cache regularly (table assumes no investment in Siege caches ever) then they can expect a weekly return of ~90; invest in the second Dungeon cache regularly, you can expect a weekly return of ~130.

Recall these facts about the Food Deal:

Obviously the translation of Marks to Chests has been negated by 0.38 but the fact remains that the progressed player (with currently maxed followers based on 5 playthroughs) can earn ~100 Ruby Marks / day from the Food Deal. Over the course of a week that is ~700 Ruby Marks, or 5x the amount of Ruby Marks they would earn by playing Events every Day and spending 400 gems every 3 days. This is highly beneficial and players would be foolish to pass it up. But that is what happens every day in full kingdoms; multiple players miss out on the opportunity to participate at all any while other players feast at the first available opportunity.

These are the worst type of incentives and engenders ill will towards the overall game design. The fact that this was completely ignored as part of 0.38 update was an egregious oversight.

P.S. please don’t ignore this post because you don’t like the title.


Yep! I have not had the opportunity to get even one food deal, for at least two months. The month before that I think I got 2. I had to give up trying, for my sanity. It wasn’t quite as big of a deal when I could just farm marks the old fashioned way. Now, everyone who takes more than one is essentially severely screwing someone else in the kingdom. KLs have absolutely no tools to prevent that.

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It’s disappointing to see we’ve gone yet another update with nothing being done to either improve kingdoms, or do anything about food.

0.35 food production was doubled. Bazaar deal sells out fast. Requests for alternate use for food. Atleast with this update and the change to followers people had followers to feed as they levelled - but a finite food sink.

0.36 - food production halved (returned to 0.34 levels). Bazaar deals sell out rapidly as many existing players have fully fed their followers. Request for alternate use for food.

0.37 - no change to food or bazaar. Bazaar sells out in minutes while most players in active kingdoms can do nothing with food - can’t use it, can’t sell it, can’t collect any more because it’s full. Requests for alternative uses for food continue to be ignored.

0.38 - nothing has changed.

And while that focuses primarily on the food deal, Kingdoms are lacking just basic guild functions - we can’t see when a player was last online, can’t see who has contributed beyond crest count. Leaders have no controls to try and allow all members to help out or benefit from being in a kingdom that can sustain all the deals at their maximum level.

Shortly after this post, we made a decision at Throne of Odin to deal with this issue by splitting the kingdom in two:

Although it was a drastic step, I felt it was necessary so that our players weren’t penalized daily by the existing poor kingdom design. Keys are essentially pointless except to the newest players playing high daily hours, so the fact that the primary kingdom benefit lost in this decision is keys made it an easier choice. I am proud of our long-standing success as a kingdom so I hate that we will take a hit in total historical Kingdom Crests earned, but right now imo this is honestly the best result for all players involved.

Perhaps if kingdoms every get reworked (bear in mind that even if something happens in 0.39, it will have been 9 months since kingdoms have been touched at all by the developer), we can remerge and continue on.


So in essence, this is a model in which all members get access to x2 food offers per day?
Sounds like a great “solution”
Without kingdom management tools - how is it working in practice?

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Thankfully virtually our entire roster is on Discord so it made the transition much easier. So far it’s working pretty well in practice. Ore Deal is maintained at V-VI for Greater Shards since you can buy Major Shards with the Ruby Marks. Honor Deal is essentially abandoned for the time being.


0.39 Update

The update dramatically changes how Crests are earned but doesn’t change anything about Crests rewards themselves. Therefore, the smaller kingdom approach is even more sensible than before. The average player doing all bounties every week would contribute ~450 Crests. The average player doing all daily activity (PvP, Events, Challenges) is contributing 500-600 Crests / week (or more if doing all PvP matches or buying Tiers in Events). Players that do additional battles on top of that are now able to contribute 1,000+ Crests / week.

Hopefully, this change towards activity-based kingdom contribution signals a positive change for active kingdoms when kingdom rewards are revamped. Until then, 15 person kingdoms are still the best structure in my opinion.

All I want for Christmas is a kingdom revamp! :christmas_tree:


18k crests is still the same top prize, so no change there, even as we broke 30k crests first week of the new system.

So yet another aspect where the game design doesn’t work in favour of full active kingdoms.

Seems all we can do is hope that update 0.40 will bring some good news here… just like we hoped from 0.39… and 0.38… and 0.37…

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Now that we have the news that the game officially launches in March, if there is not an update to kingdom tools, structure, and rewards either prior to or at launch, I will consider that a catastrophic failure of design given that there is literally no reason to be in a 30 person kingdom currently.

Do I smell an appropriate subtitle? Anyone handy with photoshop?

1st March now confirmed as v1.0 launch date.

Atleast 6 months of feedback on this topic. Sure would be nice if some if was taken onboard and applied to the game for launch.