This is PvP tourney, right? So, why aren’t I always being offered at least one opponent that will better my placement in that tourney? If I’m in 5th place, why can’t I select someone from places 1-4 as my next opponent and not have to draw from 8th, 19th, and 74th as my opponent choices? That make zero sense from a player’s perspective and is indeed highly frustrating.
Even if this scoring issue didn’t exist (it definitely does), placement on the leaderboard is dependent on being lucky enough to roll one of the 3 or 4 players in the game that can yield a 5k round score and then flawless them 10x in a single week. Unlucky with the draw? Then that player has literal zero chance of placing well on the leaderboard that week, even with flawless battles all week.
I totally agree. What’s the point of winning all of your games easily and still come 90th and get 50 gems in the end. Give me a chance to beat the best players and I can get more points.
And I do not know what to do to get more points. I should not kill the opponent too quickly but hang on there for a little bit and kill without getting killed? Because every time I kill the opponent very quickly I get punished for this. So confusing… Is there a proper explanation as to what we need to do to get more points?
Bear with me while I spend sometime this week going through this thread and revising the existing pvp feedback thread to pass it on to the team - like @Kafka said before
Appreciate, as always, you taking the time to share your experiences.
Any chance of having a window where we can see the 10 scores making up our leaderboard score? It would help us work out which battles may improve our score and which ones can’t.
Possibly a toggle on the last 20 battles box which changes it between last 20 battles and 10 best scores.
I have started out a number of the Champion-level tournaments in first place and hung out in the top five for days. But who do I get to choose from in that time? On RARE matches, legit players with gear scores higher than my 3249. The vast majority, however, are players that give me no opportunity to improve my score and advance in ranking.
And there doesn’t even seem to be a de facto ladder system in place in which my next three choices seem to be chosen based upon the carnage I unleased in my last battle. If I whip a player on the first swing who is, say, sitting 9th and has a big gear score, my next three opponents should be legit tournament contenders. You know…maybe from the top 15 or 10 point-generators (that is, those players who offer the most points when you beat them). And I then rise or fail among this slate of badasses–but at least I have the chance to rise.
Many times, I have been falling in the ranks while players were passing me and all 11 tokens were spent on players who, even when I thrashed them on the first swing, offered me 800+ points less than what I actually needed to advance. So, 11 chances with no chance to move forward. No “choice” ladder to climb. That’s discouraging. Sometimes I almost think I’ve seen a ladder happening, only to thrash a player who “offers” 3,300 and then see that the next three choices all offer less.
That said, I do enjoy the PVP so far and I think it has promise. I want to encourage the devs here in this space and not beat them over the head. I offer the above in a spirit of cooperation between gamers and devs.
This has made me think. Right now it seems we are in a system where you are supposed to rank based on your gearscore/strenght (since you get paired against opponents using that criteria), with the extra +30% as means of rewarding ability of gameplay. The system is not really working due to the differences when calculating strenght and pairing, but that may change with the incoming hotfix.
If the hotfix works as intented, we will have leaderboards where people with strongest gear and citadel on top and the rest on the bottom. Not unfair, it makes sense that the stronger you are the higher you place, and we still have that +30% as an opportunity to get extra points for ability.
However, this is a system that gives lower level players no opportunity to try to go for the top. I have seen many players frustrated because they can literally destroy the enemies they face but don’t get paired against stronger opponents so thay just get stuck, with no opportunity of improving their score.
So, here I give another idea I believe that could be use to keep improving PvP for the future. It would start with the 2.2.1 hotfix changes: first day you are paired against players with a perceived strenght similar to you. Once you get max score against the opponents you get paired with, you are offered opponents giving better points. Everytime you reach max score you start getting stronger opponents. This way you have the opportunity to keep improving your score through the week and your ability to win flawlessly gets more rewarded, while still giving stronger players an advantage in form of a head start. It may be more difficult to make it work, but I believe it would make PvPs more enjoyable
What do other players think about this? Would you like something like this?
This “max score” needs to be more clearly defined, because it assumes ten very-very perfect pairings and battles.
Also I find that opponent with gear score similar than mine give way less points I need for advancement. As the human player is usually better than an AI driven clone of it, I would love a pairing system that keeps consistently aiming up in 2 of the 3 slots (challenging and hard), and gives one fail-safe (easy) opponents for honor farming. In aiming up I mean that winning that battle with no noticeable health loss will earn more points than the lowest from my best 10 battles.
I believe at this point there needs to be a clear discussion on what “perceived strength” is and how it is calculated.
At first, the discussion was about gear score = perceived strength, and that was quickly proved to be incorrect.
Then the discussion moved to being a combination of gear score and citadel levels equaling perceived strength, but many players here are venting rightfully so that something is still very wrong.
So, what is the missing factor? I’m starting to lock in on a theorem that perceived strength is not just gear score and citadel levels, but also having the “right” attributes on gear and making the “right” choices in the citadel. Making the wrong choices can greatly affect your perceived strength.
I’ve been told by guildmates that I score 900 - 1000 points below the 3-4 outlier players whose scores are so high above everyone else that they literally define leaderboard rankings in every tourney every week. How is there such a giant discrepancy? If perceived strength is a function of the primary stat page, does that mean that I am punished for every pieces of gear that does not have BOTH Power and Life on it? Am I punished for making citadel choices that support other classes I play and instead cannibalize them by devoting all citadel points into every possible miniscule 0.2% stat upgrade?
In the hotfix, will this giant gap being sufficient for players to not see these 3-4 to players anymore because of the more accurate perceived strength matchmaking? A guildmate reported this morning that one of these 50xx scoring players are now scoring in the 51xx range, so this gap is continuing to widen on a weekly basis.
We need a long talk about the nuts and bolts of the PvP system and its scoring mechanisms, otherwise for many players this situation will never be resolved satisfactorily because the only “winners” will be the players who quietly figure out how to mathematically game the perceived strength scoring system over everyone else who does not by making the “right” gear attribute and citadel choices into a very narrow lane.
That sucks but it happens…
Now for the problems:
The last 2 days I have not been offered ANY battles that could better my score or even ANY that are close to 1/10th of my current score???
Even worse the person who has now overtaken me has a lower gear score than me so why are they getting higher points scoring matches than me? Given our gear scores are so close I can’t imagine they get heaps more points if they battle me. (I do realise the person with the highest gearscore can’t win as the others will get more points beating them but this is a large points difference)
If I happen to battle them I only get 2902 points (as seen in the last 20 battles screenshot above) which is no were near 1/10th of 33,145 which is my current score.
N.B. One small change I made 2 days ago is to upgrade a spell to level 50 from level 45. It is my only spell at level 50. It is not part of this setup I use for the open tourney and all my spells used in open tourney are level 45. My open tourney setup has not changed throughout the tourney.
When I battle any of the 3 above me they don’t give enough points to improve my position and my score is made up of 10 Priscababy battles which is the max points opponent I have been given during the tourney.
Not saying they are “cheating” as per original post but are they ahead with no chance of me beating them even though I have a higher gear score… 225 in the case of caioshinn76. So why aren’t i getting opponents that score more than they did?
There’s also the problem mentioned before where the person with the highest gearscore can’t come first as others get more points by battling them. This doesn’t seem to happen in this case.
And another picture to show how messed up the points are:
With just 5 gear points difference Lela and xKITANOx give points that are 276 different.
Yet Cudahey and Lela have a gear score of 148 difference but only give points that are 10 different.
Could we get some transparency here? Those numbers make no sense.
Again, about the flaw in the matchmaking.
Elite Tourney (Purple). My GS is 2609.
From the last 11 opponents, I got 9 with less GS than mine, no improvement.
2 was slightly better, I have improved about 300 points since yesterday. As you can see, my point total is over 29000, so opponents who give 1500-1700 base points (with a flawless win under 2400) are absolutely no use for me.
Same here…Unless we have one or more stronger/strongest opponent options, not sure how this could be solved. What’s the disadvantage of having stronger opponents? It’s more fun trying to beat a way stronger opponent anyway. You need skill, power, right gear and a bit of luck. Otherwise, they smash you anyway!
Having the option for a lower opponent, a matching and a more difficult option was one of the suggestions we raised recently with the dev team and it is something they are looking into further.
But as mentioned before, PvP scoring and whatnot are constantly being watched and reviewed currently. Especially with the most recent changes, we will be in a period of review for some time.
I can see why TRJoker is being ignored . I honestly don’t mind how the fights work now, but the scoring system needs work.
The major thing is to take away the chance, so make the max amount of scorable points set to an actual attainable number, first person to get there gets max points, everyone who would get that amount after gets one point less to show their ranking. Then, in order to go up a rank, you have to win 3 to 5 matches against that person in a row, and they are selectable, to usurp them. Easy fix!
It is clear the main obstacle against rewarding ability and performance and giving the opportunity to all to get first place is that the devs don’t want to go back to having multiple players tied at first place. However, I see an issue in your suggestion for solving those ties: time zone.
Both the “first come, first place” and the “win against them, surpass them” give advantage to players that can easily play on reset time, since they can be the first and last to play. On the contrary, players like myself that are sleeping during reset time would be at a disadvantage.
I still like your idea of using the battles between tied players to solve the tie. Either counting just the number of wins and losses, or even better to avoid ties, the % of max points obtained against each other.
I like the new PvPs, but I still see a lot of improvement room. Giving the opportunity to everyone to battle the top players from your tourney (or even any tourney) and fight for the 1st place seems to me the direction to go. This would leave 2 issues to solve.
1-What about the strongest player in a league?
2-How to solve ties?
Thank to all players for posting their suggestions and to the devs for hearing us out, I hope that between all of us we can contribute to make PvPs a great battle mode.
As we have shared previously, we are taking a look at all feedback shared in regard to PvP scoring, mechanics and gameplay (also errors) and there will be ongoing changes to these. Again, this will be in a period of review for some time.
I won’t be posting here every time I grab some feedback, but we are regularly reading your threads and will have more information closer to the next update about what changes might be implemented. Which I understand can be frustrating to not feel heard when there aren’t replies to an active discussion, but there is a lot to share, not just from PvP feedback threads & reports.
Once there is more information, be it a small change coming through or a bigger plan in the next update (that is confirmed) I will post what I can.
But again, appreciate everyone taking the time to share their experiences playing through PvP and passing on your feedback and suggestions!
End Play PvP 2600-2900 WTF !!!
. I honestly don’t mind how the fights work now, but the scoring system needs work.